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+--- Thread: Jumping out of combat... (/showthread.php?tid=123727)
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Lythrilux - 12-16-2014
The argument that nerfing and balancing broken aspects of the mod will tombstone it is silly.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - black widow3 - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 02:52 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The argument that nerfing and balancing broken aspects of the mod will tombstone it is silly.
Rather than moaning about JDs why don't you LNS try JDs for yourself??
The Liberty Dread is more than capable of mounting a JD3 with enough space to hold fuel for a single flight.
Proof of this is my Jump Enabled Dunkirk HMS Illustrious.
It is mounted with a JD3, HA4 Armour, Shield and has 7 guns. 3 Cerb Turrets and 4 Primaries just enough fire power to kill any other battleship with 395 empty space for MOX.
A liberty dread with the same setup can be just as effective as the Kirk and Dread have the same stats.
So why not make jumping dreads and we can all put this thread to sleep.
Your hands are not tied here, you can do exactly what the RM are doing. You even have a Carrier you could use for this purpose also with more space meaning it carry more weaps.
Create a Jumping Liberty Dread and I will give you free coords for NY and TX so you can all join the fun.
You only need to think of ways to counter jumping turtles to shift the balance of power. There is no need to nerf jumping
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
Quote:so you can all join the fun.
And that's where you are wrong in my opinion:
It is not fun.
And sure.
Now everybody get unkillable jumpy-BS... so we get the nerf faster.
I support that!
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Thyrzul - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 02:52 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Wow. Wow. Wow.
Have you ever tried to kill a Jumper, Thyr?
For bombers it is completely impossible.
For 2 Cruisers, it is completely impossible.
For anything that is not a huge gankforce with at least 2 BS, it is impossible to kill it in the little time that you have before it is gone... just to return with 5k bots 2 min later.
How is that counter-able?
It's not.
After the jumper comes back for the first time, the other side has lost all its BS.
From then on, it is a pure massacre and you can basically log off, as a non-BS force can never hope to get the jumper down.
Go to TX. Log Liberty. See the silliness on every single raid.
How about we clarify exactly what amount of forces clashing are we talking about? Last time remember TX was about fleet battles, a lot of caps vs a lot of caps, in which you have the amount of firepower to pick one ship out of the many you are facing, and order everybody on your team to shoot it until explodes. Unless we are talking about smaller brawls like a 2v2 or 3v3, your team should be able to concentrate firepower on one individual vessel and take it out before it jumps away (based on the examples you brought, especially that huge gankforce with battleships thing). And if we are talking about smaller brawls like the ones I mentioned above, one ship being away from the battlefield is a way more significant disadvantage for the teammates who stayed there.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - t0l - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 03:03 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:(12-16-2014, 02:52 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Wow. Wow. Wow.
Have you ever tried to kill a Jumper, Thyr?
For bombers it is completely impossible.
For 2 Cruisers, it is completely impossible.
For anything that is not a huge gankforce with at least 2 BS, it is impossible to kill it in the little time that you have before it is gone... just to return with 5k bots 2 min later.
How is that counter-able?
It's not.
After the jumper comes back for the first time, the other side has lost all its BS.
From then on, it is a pure massacre and you can basically log off, as a non-BS force can never hope to get the jumper down.
Go to TX. Log Liberty. See the silliness on every single raid.
How about we clarify exactly what amount of forces clashing are we talking about? Last time remember TX was about fleet battles, a lot of caps vs a lot of caps, in which you have the amount of firepower to pick one ship out of the many you are facing, and order everybody on your team to shoot it until explodes. Unless we are talking about smaller brawls like a 2v2 or 3v3, your team should be able to concentrate firepower on one individual vessel and take it out before it jumps away (based on the examples you brought, especially that huge gankforce with battleships thing). And if we are talking about smaller brawls like the ones I mentioned above, one ship being away from the battlefield is a way more significant disadvantage for the teammates who stayed there.
Most of the competant LN players use LABCs, often in triples or pairs because most of us don't want to deal with this trash. They have firepower, but not enough to kill a turtle before it jumps away. Dreads are pointless as cruiser spam will wreck you since you can't catch up.
The ship that leaves and comes back will consistantly feed any remaining ships and be a general annoyance until the LN players get bored and leave.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - black widow3 - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 03:11 PM)Tal Wrote:(12-16-2014, 03:03 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:(12-16-2014, 02:52 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Wow. Wow. Wow.
Have you ever tried to kill a Jumper, Thyr?
For bombers it is completely impossible.
For 2 Cruisers, it is completely impossible.
For anything that is not a huge gankforce with at least 2 BS, it is impossible to kill it in the little time that you have before it is gone... just to return with 5k bots 2 min later.
How is that counter-able?
It's not.
After the jumper comes back for the first time, the other side has lost all its BS.
From then on, it is a pure massacre and you can basically log off, as a non-BS force can never hope to get the jumper down.
Go to TX. Log Liberty. See the silliness on every single raid.
How about we clarify exactly what amount of forces clashing are we talking about? Last time remember TX was about fleet battles, a lot of caps vs a lot of caps, in which you have the amount of firepower to pick one ship out of the many you are facing, and order everybody on your team to shoot it until explodes. Unless we are talking about smaller brawls like a 2v2 or 3v3, your team should be able to concentrate firepower on one individual vessel and take it out before it jumps away (based on the examples you brought, especially that huge gankforce with battleships thing). And if we are talking about smaller brawls like the ones I mentioned above, one ship being away from the battlefield is a way more significant disadvantage for the teammates who stayed there.
Most of the competant LN players use LABCs, often in triples or pairs because most of us don't want to deal with this trash. They have firepower, but not enough to kill a turtle before it jumps away. Dreads are pointless as cruiser spam will wreck you since you can't catch up.
The ship that leaves and comes back will consistantly feed any remaining ships and be a general annoyance until the LN players get bored and leave.
In all my time fighting liberty with my jump Elbe, I have never seen my side jump for the purpose of bot feeding.
This is just a myth being spun by those who hate jumpers to try and discredit this technology even more.
In battle I have seen re-jumping turtles but only for the purpose of escape never to bot feed. If you think about it, it would be pointless to botfeed using a jumper ship because that means the jumper will be left exposed if they are selected as a target. They will be dead before they can escape. Jumping makes ganking harder which is what I think this thread is really about as liberty love to gank.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
A Jumper does not die if he is not stupid.
Just know how long you last under fire until your cloak is charged.
Normally, there is no way to kill a jumpy ship in that (very short) time.
It certainly is not possible with what most fleet battles field.
Therefore: unkillable.
Things that cannot be countered are bad.
Therefore: JD = bad.
Let's see how the new thing will look.
Pointless discussing it now, and as we see, those who have them love them (bc they rock in it. Yay!) and those who do not use them (for whatever reason) hate them (bc they are op and ruin fleet battles).
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Black Widow - 12-16-2014
What new thing
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Lythrilux - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 03:24 PM)black widow3 Wrote: In all my time fighting liberty with my jump Elbe, I have never seen my side jump for the purpose of bot feeding.Your argument is based soley upon your own experience - specifically just from your own eyes.
This is just a myth being spun by those who hate jumpers to try and discredit this technology even more.
In battle I have seen re-jumping turtles but only for the purpose of escape never to bot feed. If you think about it, it would be pointless to botfeed using a jumper ship because that means the jumper will be left exposed if they are selected as a target. They will be dead before they can escape. Jumping makes ganking harder which is what I think this thread is really about as liberty love to gank.
You make the assumption that just because you've never done it, or that any of your teammates have never done it, that bot feeding from jumping caps is an impossibility and never happens ever.
However you're wrong because it is a possibility. I could go make a jumping BS right now and it's sole purpose could be to jump bots/bats into the fight back and forth. Your argument has been debunked.
As long as there's the possibility, it can't be ruled out. Your argument is akin to saying that normal bot feeding doesn't happen ever; just because a handful of people don't botfeed from caps, doesn't mean that bot feeding never happens.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 03:36 PM)Black Widow Wrote: What new thing
JDs in the new version. You know... the nerfed version that will make you regret you spend 1 credit on it.
No, no seriously, tbh: I have no clue what the changes in JDs will bring. I heard rumors that there are changes coming, but I honestly do not know how and to what. I just know that the problems they create have been discussed a lot and should have made their way to the devs. What the reaction is, I cannot say as I do not know.
*ejects from le thread as everything has been said from my Pov/experience*