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T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Printable Version

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RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - nagi - 10-10-2014

i need to apply to t&t

my account name: maxtrade
I'm freelancer with junker ID
my ship serenity with 3600 cargo space
i well change my name to
T&T/maxtrade
and i want to get access to the tankers heaven
and password to tag
thank you

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - FynnMcScrap - 10-11-2014

(10-10-2014, 11:56 PM)maxjo Wrote: i need to apply to t&t

my account name: maxtrade
I'm freelancer with junker ID
my ship serenity with 3600 cargo space
i well change my name to
T&T/maxtrade
and i want to get access to the tankers heaven
and password to tag
thank you

Wrong Thread ;-)

Well, not really, we have no fixed application thread so far.
ooc ( out of character ) applications can be sent via PM ( and I already replied to your PM, the maxtrade has been added to the Havens docking registry )

All information you need have been forwarded through PM.

inRP ( in role play ) applications best in game itself, or in the havens main thread or the cantina.

We are a role play faction , and a bunch of individualists.
So you decide yourself how and why you join the Tinkers.

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Tinker and Transport - 10-17-2014

Edit Log #12 :

edited offices
added chief of Logistics, Chief of Sec., Chief Engineer and Doc Nagger to officials list.

Also deleted : "\V/Vigilantes" because of http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1592815
A pity

Also updated membership roll and did some cosmetics

17.10.2014

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Tinker and Transport - 10-31-2014

updated membership roll : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117754&pid=1568490#pid1568490
I will edit it further when I get told ship names.
We greet 2 new senior members and 1 new junior member at T&T.

Thank you all for your interest and the time spent with the rest of the Tinker´s
It´s the best compliment ;-)


Greets
Rob

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Tinker and Transport - 11-13-2014

Edit #13 updated diplomacy and linked diplo to here :
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1602115


( build T&T security board )

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - FynnMcScrap - 11-21-2014

Hi Disco !

I´d like to ask for some opinions and feedback here, before I post my request to ADMIN :

Short version : Tinker & Transport will try and get official, I will write the request in the appropriate forum early in December. ( I have full vacation from 1st to 14th of decembre and am looking forward to it )
We have been discussing a single ID for Tinker´s or ceeping the current dual ID build ( T&T/ Freelance ID and J/T&T/ Junker ID ) and would like to switch to a single, official faction ID.

Quote:Current aim for our new ID : ( no final version jet )

Tinker´s ID : ( based on a mix of Junker and Freelance ID )
  • counts as Junker ID ( Organisation ID ) but with differing Rep sheet.
  • Sirius wide ZoI like Freelancer ID. Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect an allied ship. ( Not in defense of a neutral ship as T&T/ takes a defensive stance in weapon use )
    ( Can fulfill any bounty and escort contracts, but may not treat transports as combat targets when executing a bounty or escort contract against them. / discuss this as possible balancing tool ? )
  • max cargo at 3600
  • may use civilian ship line & Junker ship line but according to cargo max no P-Train. Allows snubs / freighters / bombers / transports / gunboats
  • has predefined Rep ( hostile to Xeno,hostile to Gallia, nearly hostile to Hogosha & Samura ect.)
  • has a scrap and prem_scrap mining bonus

I must admit that the different scrapping / mining bonuses from the Mining Guide / Mining review baffled me a bit. As described in the affix we would like to get down to 1 ID, NOT using the dual ID makeshift we currently use any longer.

Greetings
Rob


*************

More Information as discussed between Tinkers :

As T&T/ will try and get official, starting the process probably in early december, we would bid you brainstorm with us. After all : we do not only need acceptance from both Admins and Community, but we are talking about building the final form we / Tinkers will have .

We ( Sturm and I ) have discussed it time and again, and I will present several balanced possibilities for one main faction ID using Junker subfaction or for an official Tinkers ID wich would reform T&T into one unique faction ID without any subfaction any more. Pleas remember : it has to be balanced not only for our convenience, but for game balance towards other factions too, and if we manage to get official with it it would not only be final , but we would take full responsibility for all RP around it too. Even if this is a game, this is not a game ;-)

This is a discussion brief, an exposee to let you know about our plans. And we will discuss it in the Haven´s Skype chat.
I bid you send serious feedback.
This Exposee will be refined and formed through this, before we send it to more Disco members or post it openly before we set the final request.

Exposee :
  1. current situation and RP
  2. current problems and positive + negative feedback
  3. options for dual ID ( Freelancer & Junker )
  4. options for single, official Tinkers ID without any more need for subfaction
  5. connected RP and ideas for future projects


Affix 1 : T&T/ tech chart
Affix 2 : T&T/ rep sheet


Topic 1 ) Current situation

We are currently using 2 ID : Main faction ( Tinker&Transport ) is using the Freelancer ID for several reasons, but as we focus on scrap trading as our main economic basis we employ Junker ID scrap miners on a regular payroll, offering them security and health care and a lot of other bonuses ihn the deal. This is accepted by both official Junker factions ( .:J:. and JM| ) even though the diplomatic stance of T&T is different to their rep sheets. This is also the main and focal point in the RP background for T&T , and can not be changed without sacrificing the whole RP idea.
T&T is the nearly - lawful side of the Junker Trinity :
  • Junker Marauders opt for full *Junker ID use* , including Piracy and active Hogosha hunting
  • Junker Congress opt for a diplomatic and *cash maker* stance, smuggling freely and using the typical Junker tricks to get powerful while frowning on Piracy as it disrupts their diplomacy
  • T&T is a mix of Freelancer and Junker interests, not allowing piracy, not allowing smuggle, but with a strong Junker background.
    We scrap, we trade, we are likely to to blokade running ( war time smuggling ) , but as we are even more careful about our rep as Congress we will not allow contraband trade except in a clearly defined blokade runner context ( breaking the gallic blokade at Leeds to evacuate refugees for excemple ).
    Even then we stay true to our code of conduct and transport no Black Market Munition, as we need the official consent of lawful factions.
    We are *white collar Junkers*, determined to better life for junker communities and opening legal markets and contacts.


Topic 2 ) current problems and positive + negative feedback

We have been critizised for *evading rep rules for Junker ID* and * expanding Junker ZoI through the use of Freelancer ID* .
And we have also had very positive feedback, too.
But now we are ready to do the next step : to get official.
And so we will have to find a permanent solution. Not necessarily one that will make life easier for us, and not necessarily one that will make us well loved.
We need a balanced ID / Rep situation that will let the faction continue to grow,
and will ensure not only interaction with others in forumlancing RP, but also "inflight" encounters, a clear situation towards allies and enemies, and generally some positive contribution to Disco community.

Tinkers : please remember that this is not only about *building a great faction for us* but to fit into existing Disco community as a worthy official faction.
And *Others* : Please remember that we are serious about this, and we are no powermonger or LOLwhut faction determined to *catch as catch can* .
We want serious feedback and wish to fit into the community while we build up a faction that is fun to play, and fun to interact with.


Topic 3 ) options for dual ID ( Freelancer & Junker )

Currently :
T&T/ Freelancer ID : quasilawfull generic ID

Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Freelancer, who:
  • Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect an allied or neutral ship.
  • Can fulfill any bounty and escort contracts, and may treat transports as combat targets when executing a bounty or escort contract against them.
  • Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo, except for the Pirate Train.
  • Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.

Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats.

J/T&T/ Junker ID : quasilawful organization ID
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Junkers who:
  • Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Junker ship, or in defense of a Junker base.
  • Can demand cargo and credits from ships outside of Rheinland, Liberty and Bretonian house space, and attack them if they do not comply.
  • Can actively hunt Xenos and Hogosha anywhere
  • Cannot use any transport with more than 4,300 cargo.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats.

Big differenc in Rep and ZoI between the two ID´s, and we mostely use Freelancer ID for trade.
Sure, sometimes members take the Junker ID with the bigger cargo allowance as an incentive to use some bigger ship, but as the P-Train is outlawed in liberty and we have a strict internal rule NOT to break this law some members had the idea of using the Bison with the slight technerf on Junker ID.
A RP attempt to get a technology clearance from USI has failed so far, even if the RP has not been closed jet.
Newcomers at T&T have expressed a desire to buy a Bison , too, but have been disencouraged to do so. It´s not worth the trouble.


Even if this is sometimes seen as a negative point by some members we do not really need a large cargo allowance, neither to make good money nor in a RP sense. We specialize in borderworld trade, blokade running and evading problems, so the 3600 cargo cap lets us use perfectly fitted ships : Serenity, BWT and such. And our second major trade source ( refugee runs and MedEvac / humanitarian aid ) needs liners and freighters, so we stay under the cargo limit of 3,6k here, too. But we need the sirius wide ZoI / flight ability the Freelance ID offers us. That we can only defend / protect allies is no problem, as our RP does not include active fighting. We tend rather to hire escorts or defend ourselves, or to clear such problems through dilpomacy and alleigances.
We are no pewpew faction and even if we have some members eager to fight the faction does not intend to opt for active violence.
We need Junker ID for the scrap bonus and ship line, not for the ZoI allowance.
And even though we base about 75% of our RP on a Junker background we are still a free trade and a Freelancer trade co - operation.

So Option 1 is :
Tinker & Transport ID based on Freelance ID ,
mainly just defining Rep and giving us an easy /restart rep ability,
while we still continue to use Junker ID for our scrap workers.
And ever so often somebody will want to use Junker ID for trade, too.

Personal opinion of Rob aka FynnMcScrap & Mr. Tukker ( Faction 1iC ) :
Not my favourite option, more like a default to fall back to.
No real sense in getting official then, as I take RP seriously even while not official.
It´s more like *let everything as it is to spare yourself the flames*.



Option 2 :
Theoretically it´s possible to take official ID as Junkers , and switch to using T&T/ Freelancer ID only for trading. A major break with all RP we did so far, but technically possible.

Rob : I would vote against this. It does not fit.
AND we would probably loose our acces to Kusari, and quick.
Ok, there are other sellpoints, and we are working at them. But even though we always admit that we are a co - op between Junkers and Freelancers, we remain first of all : a Freelance trading company.


So far I have read and understood the faction rules, you can have a generic or official ID , and use 1 sub-faction ID . That would not change with officialdom, only the main faction ID would be refined here.Or we might take a different approach to this, as I will continue to describe in the next topic :

Topic 4 ) options for single, official Tinkers ID

Now comes the interesting part :
If we get to run for officialdom , so far I understand it we can also opt to ask for a unique, Tinkers ID. A single faction ID eliminating the need for any dual ID tricks, and eliminating the need for a sub-faction. Sturm and me have been discussing this for a while, and have several suggestions to discuss. This first draft is for informal discussion with T&T/ members and friends and advisors, and if we try and opt for this I will write a final draft for open discussion and official request to Admins. But first we would like to discuss this with you.
  • This is about balance : we are asking for a new, totaly independent ID mixing certain elements from Freelancer and Junker ID into something different.
  • This is about fun : we want to have a workable ID that ensures interaction, RP, and is attractive enough to stand next to the others, enriching Disco community with a RP - centred, workable quasilegal trade ID.
  • This is about fairness : we do not seek special treatment or special care. We only want to have a chance to play our role... the *white collar Junkers*
  • This is about credibility : We have been criticised lately that *we are no Junkers* Ok ? Then let us proudly say : We are Tinkers. Scrap peddlers, metalworkers, trinket and elexier traders. And... paramedic aid runners.
  • This is about RP : As Fynn has been heard to say : we are a new sort of alloy. Scrapped and recycled from what we found, and a new sort of Manifold ready to be smeltered. So we will continue the RP, write our history along the way, and through that define what we are.

I would like to write here that I know exactly how to go about creating such an ID, but the truth is : I do not.
I will need lots of help here, from you all. From Admins allowing or disallowing our ideas, from players joining in or giving us feedback.
From members willing to work along, taking on the same responsibility that I do :
To build up a faction story worthy of being an official faction and an official ID.

My thanks and gratitude to you all.

Tinkers ID suggestions :
None of these builds are definitive, just excemples. We are ready to cut away stuff for more balance, but the core we need are :
Cargo up to 3.600
Mining for scrap / PremScrap
Freedom to trade and fly as long as no diplomacy prevents it
>>> we need no attack capability, and every ID allows self defense , even in a convoi . We do not need more

Build A ) Freelance trade net / scrapper ID : ( based on a mix of Junker and Freelance ID )
  • counts as Junker ID ( Organisation ID ) but with differing Rep sheet.
  • Sirius wide ZoI like Freelancer ID. Same combat rules as Freelancer
  • max cargo at 3600
  • may use civilian ship line & Junker ship line but according to cargo max no P-Train. Allows snubs / freighters / bombers / transports / gunboats but : no caps.
  • has predefined Rep ( hostile to Xeno,hostile to Gallia, nearly hostile to Hogosha & Samura ect.)


Build B ) expanded Scrapper / Trader ID : ( based on Freelancer & ALG )
  • counts as special ID ( Organisation ID ) but with differing Rep sheet.
    Has a reduced mining bonus ( perhaps like ALG ? ) for scrap and Premium scrap only
  • Sirius wide ZoI like Freelancer ID. Same combat rules as Freelancer
  • max cargo at 3600
  • may use civilian ship line & Junker ship line but according to cargo max no P-Train. Allows snubs / freighters / bombers / transports / gunboats but : no caps.
  • has predefined Rep ( hostile to Xeno,hostile to Gallia, nearly hostile to Hogosha & Samura ect.)


Build C ) expanded Scrapper / miner / trade net ID :
  • counts as special ID ( Organisation ID ) but with differing Rep sheet.
    Has a reduced mining bonus ( based on Miner ID ) for Scrap , Premium scrap and hard ore types.
  • Core, borderworld and independent ZoI. Same combat rules as Freelancer
  • max cargo at 3600
  • may use civilian ship line & Junker ship line but according to cargo max no P-Train. Allows snubs / freighters / bombers / transports / gunboats but : no caps.
  • has predefined Rep ( hostile to Xeno,hostile to Gallia, nearly hostile to Hogosha & Samura ect.)
  • may use Mining ID bonus on hard Ore types but must cope with rep / diplomacy concerning the ownership of the equivalent field.

Mining bonus : ( based on Mining Guide v.4.0 / vs / based on mining review )

( Junker )
commodity_scrap_metal, 4.0, / 3
commodity_premiumscrap, 5.0, / 4

( ALG ) :
commodity_scrap_metal, 4.0, / 3
commodity_premiumscrap, 4.0, / 5 ( ? )

( Miner ID )
commodity_scrap_metal, 2.0, / 0 ( ? )
commodity_premiumscrap, 2.0, / 1.5

Complete Mining review :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FESVWNvXSfT8-PXllERtAXRKozUpSZXtfq8kwuLneqM/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Mining Guide v.4.0
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=71050



Topic 5 ) connected RP and ideas for future projects

Tinker & Transport is still young. And we will grow not only in the mebership roll.

As stated in our pinning Thread :
Response to our License query for medical supplies by Liberty Forces :
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117996
We have thus opened communication with LPI :
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=120114
Bati Legionnes sent the first brainstorming scetches for the Galena Park Resort .
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1590424

We plan several long term RP / inGame projects that will take time to develop,
the *Galena Part Resort* only being the first of these projects.
Sadly so far I have only got a *not possible because of policy* response from Dev´s and Admins, without further explanation. In this case, we wanted to ask for a SRP new docking place similar in build to the sattelite at Leeds, only at Houston : Galena Park freighter landing pod.
I hope to get more Ideas or more response while or after we have managed the time consuming voyage to officialdom.

Also we have at least 2 long- term Forum RP stories building up, and several RP interactions with other groups.
To name Mr. Walkers search for his Sister as one ( planned perhaps to end in a rescue event later on )
And Fynn´s background also still has questions open, with his lost *sister* MariKiko ( "rebellious Chrysanthemum " ) turning up again in his life.

We also encourage other members to spin their own stories, and we will then try to solve all problems together .
After all, as stated in our code of conduct : We are family.
A new sort of alloy smeltered from scrap and raw ore, and a manifold ready to be formed into a strong and proud hull.

- We transport and trade no Contraband. We cherish our reputation, even if we do not condem those who trade in these commoditys.

- We are family. We care for and defend each other.

- We will use weaponry to defend our family, or interests and ourselves,
but we choose willingly to solve any issue through negotiation or with peaceful means if possible.

- We aknowledge territorial or official Law in the systems we inhabitate or visit even if we chose to live in cooperative Consent.

- We cherish integrity over lawful conduct.

- We confirm that we follow this code of conduct to our best ability.


Your Word is your breath. You stand tall and fall with it.
Cherish it. It is precious. It is ... your reputation.

Allowed is what pleases , without harming yourselve or others.


We welcome all interested members of community to join us in our voyage,
be it as guest, as friend , as ally or enemy.
Or as one of us, IF and WHEN we manage to define us and " Tinkers" officially.


Thanks again for your time and interest
Rob / FynnMcScrap



Affixes :

T&T/ tech chart :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CAoBPVYoRJkQ2T7-yn1L22sDxhDjUQqGd7jHYre63Sg/edit#gid=0

( unfinished )

T&T/ rep sheet :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GLUSMy0Cu48M_Ic-2LDJzWDCwPyi0YuD6tPhbDyIwsk/edit#gid=0

( unfinished )



Thanks for reading
Rob

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 11-21-2014

What exactly is the Junker ZoI you are referring to? As far as I know they are Sirius-wide, like Freelancers, at least I can't see any ZoI line in their ID.
And what are the differences between your rep sheet and the rephacks of Freelancer ID and Junker ID?
Besides these two things I can't see anything on any of these two IDs that could prevent you guys rolling on with your agenda should you decide to pick one of them to use.


RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - FynnMcScrap - 11-21-2014

(11-21-2014, 09:55 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:
What exactly is the Junker ZoI you are referring to? As far as I know they are Sirius-wide, like Freelancers, at least I can't see any ZoI line in their ID.
And what are the differences between your rep sheet and the rephacks of Freelancer ID and Junker ID?
Besides these two things I can't see anything on any of these two IDs that could prevent you guys rolling on with your agenda should you decide to pick one of them to use.

Ah, well ... ZoI : As we have nobody we want to attack and no laws to enforce we don´t really have a ZoI. But of course if we issue bounty or pay escorts or help allies... the ID always has a predefined ZoI as far as I know, and I would like to ceep the Freelancer ability to fly everywhere. If somebody shoots us, thats risk of the trade.

Rep Sheet / Rephack :

Most important is that we start neutral to unfriendly with Hogosha / Samura and other Kusari groups.
The whole idea behind T&T was originally to enable trade with PremScrap to lawful sellpoints.
Even if we sometimes carry scrap to Alpha or Gamma it´s not our main market, and the rep shows it ( or is meant to show it as soon as rephack is set )
The rest developed from there, and even the purpose behind getting a single ID is about diplomacy and rep :
We are Tinkers. Not quite Junkers, not quite Freelancers.

So as we get friendly with Council , IMG ... perhaps even CR| , we fully expect either to get hostile with Outcasts or at least get the same *nearly hostile but just unfriendly* rephack as with Hogosha / Samura ect.

I don´t like the simple Freelancer rephack , too neutral for my liking.
And we are developing our rep as we go. I´d like to contact several groups and factions, defining rep and perhaps taking supply or trade contracts. Or just ... getting out of their ZoI fast.

That stuff , either inGame in flight or in Forum play , is the reason I play on a RP Server after all. Player count alone doesn´t bring fun.

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - Lumik - 11-21-2014

(11-21-2014, 09:55 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:

And what are the differences between your rep sheet and the rephacks of Freelancer ID and Junker ID?

If I remember correctly, Junker ID is rephacked to no dock with Ageira, Liberty Navy, Samura and Kishiro (and gallic corps but this doesn´t matter for them) and to hostile with KSP and KNF, that´s what they want to avoid (except Samura) while keeping scrap mining ability (and bonuses).

EDIT: As for suggestions... Hard to tell. Maybe you should find things you can sacrifice to show you are not just cherry pickers who want only good things from both IDs while getting away from bad things. Being hostile with Gallia is not enough in my opinion. Maybe going to hostile (or at least no dock) rep with Corsairs and Outcats could work, it will belong to your role of "law abiding traders with scrap and other goods" and show you are willing to sacrifice part of junkers abilities (premium scrap/contraband trading routes to Omicron Gamma and Alpha) to get access to lawful stations.

RE: T&T/ Tinker&Transport Information and Feedback - FynnMcScrap - 11-21-2014

Not quite correct :

We ARE avoiding it currently, by using J/T&T/ ship transponder for Junker ID ships, and T&T/ transponder for Freelance ships.
Have been the last ... 5 months or so ?

What we now want to achieve is our own ID, freely FR5able by official factions.
Pirateable by Hogosha, bannable by Samura, traceable and scanable by Kusari police and so on...