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+--- Thread: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. (/showthread.php?tid=120722)
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It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - KaiserDietz - 09-17-2014
So I recently ran across a discussion on a skype channel over the usefulness of having docking modules on ships.
EDIT: Combat repair is possible, but what about a carrier's namesake, carrying ships into battle?
So that got me thinking about how carriers could be made useful in general. Liberty dreadnoughts tend to outclass the Assault Carrier, and almost no one flies the Elbe for a similar reason. Carriers are supposed to carry ships, but almost no one invests in docking modules, and if they do, they rarely find a use for them. Why aren't carriers useful for carrying ships into battle?
Because the enemy can see the docked ships coming, with the wonderful tool of the player list (please don't turn the topic to the existance of the player list as a whole). They see LNS-XXXXX grouped with a number of snubs of different level and assume, "this person has around x fighters and around y bombers."
EDIT: Even if, given the fact that the ships appear to remain in the system in which they docked, it looks like the ships aren't protecting the cap fleet, one could surmise that they would probably be docked. Even if you couldn't assume and counter act that, you know that reinforcements will be there waaaayyy before you can finish off the cap (assuming bomber horde and reinforcements are 1-2 systems away.)
So here's the solution (at least for me). When a player docks on a Carrier, battleship, w/e, they should disappear from the playerlist. This will make the carrier and its fleet look like tempting bait to, say, a cougar swarm. Everyone logs bombers, comes after the fleet, but as soon as they try to attack, fighters pour out and demolish them. This will encourage a more flexible constituency in attack group to account for the risk of unknown variables
In addition to creative strategic planning, this will reduce the amount of QQ about the weakness of caps vs. bombers. The power of caps as related to snubs, should always be a support role imo, and most of their power should come from the complement that they bring with them. They have the opportunity to successfully use escorts without scaring off attackers, so why not use them to their advantage?
TL; DR: Remove ship docked snubs from the player list, increase strategic planning, add variation to battle, reduce cap QQ
Your TL;DR was a TL;DR:
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Spoiler![[Image: it-s-a-trap-o.gif]](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1242587/it-s-a-trap-o.gif)
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Thyrzul - 09-17-2014
If this would get through, prepare yourself for the brand new excuse of "I expected you to carry a dozen of bombers with you:" in response to qq about ganks.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - St.Denis - 09-17-2014
Just a couple of points with regards to your post.
1) As far as I am aware docking on a ship, using a Docking Module, does not count as a PvP death as there isn't any Docking Message.
2) When a ship docks on another ship then that ship 'appears', on the chat list, to be in the System that it docked in, even though the Carrier may move to another System. When the Fighter undocks it will then suddenly 'appears' on the chat list as in the same System where it undocked.
I apologise if this information is out of date, but I haven't seen anything to say that the above has been superseded.
.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Connor - 09-17-2014
Quote:Because the enemy can see the docked ships coming, with the wonderful tool of the player list (please don't turn the topic to the existance of the player list as a whole).
No they can't. If a snub docks on a carrier in, let's say, New London and they head out to leeds, snubs will still be shown as being in New London. This is because snubs are moved to an invisible base (hence when you die you span 100k above the sun) where they are kept until they undock from the carrier. When they unlock, they're moved to a position next to the carrier and then the player list says they're in Leeds.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - KaiserDietz - 09-17-2014
I'm aware that that is the way that docking modules work, and I'll modify my OP to reduce general confusion. Even if the ship moves from the system, the way the game is setup, reinforcements 1-2 systems away will usually be able to reach a beseiged ship in time. You can also still roughly estimate the strength/type of forces you are facing and be dissuaded from fighting an unprotected cap for a few minutes before a ton of fighters showed up.
I was not aware that docking on a ship was not PvP death, will reflect that in OP.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Haste - 09-17-2014
I believe docked snubs can also log off and still remain docked on the carrier. Docking modules are a bit iffy, though.
If that works, you could coordinate when to log on to get the proposed effect, although nine times out of ten that shouldn't be necessary, considering the player list shows an errant location anyways if the carrier jumps.
If docking on a carrier in combat is allowed by the rules, snubs could repeatedly dock and repair their hull through a carrier, forcing players to shoot down the larger ship. Of course this is roughly as much of a dick move as cap feeding if the opposing force has no means whatsoever to deal with the larger ship. At least it's a little more 'reasonable' in terms of mechanics, however.
If jumpdrives were overhauled to be a means of getting around rather than a means to avoid getting killed in PvP, they could be adapted so that docking on a carrier and then jumping the carrier could be a convenient way to move around snubcraft. This would give docking modules (even) more useful applications.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Binski - 09-17-2014
They should just open up DM's to freighters and other transports. They would be considered far more valuable and useful if ships could actually RP with them instead of only saving them as carrier bays for combat snubs. Perhaps allow docking of ships with 3600 cargo holds or less. People would actually get use out of acting as a mobile docking station for regular ships going about their business. All sorts of uses for miners/scrappers having a ship like that around would pop up. Not to mention, it alters the value of your tactics, needing to concentrate on carrier ships first, if attacking or pirating. However if this were done, the value would have to go up for sure, and perhaps limit to 1 bay per transport.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Highland Laddie - 09-17-2014
(09-17-2014, 05:56 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: They should just open up DM's to freighters and other transports. They would be considered far more valuable and useful if ships could actually RP with them instead of only saving them as carrier bays for combat snubs. Perhaps allow docking of ships with 3600 cargo holds or less. People would actually get use out of acting as a mobile docking station for regular ships going about their business. All sorts of uses for miners/scrappers having a ship like that around would pop up. Not to mention, it alters the value of your tactics, needing to concentrate on carrier ships first, if attacking or pirating. However if this were done, the value would have to go up for sure, and perhaps limit to 1 bay per transport.
Except this kind of move only panders to the jump-trading crowd, at least in terms of docking transports. Freighters I'd have no problem with.
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - Ayatolah - 09-17-2014
(09-17-2014, 04:26 PM)Haste Wrote: I believe docked snubs can also log off and still remain docked on the carrier. Docking modules are a bit iffy, though.
If that works, you could coordinate when to log on to get the proposed effect, although nine times out of ten that shouldn't be necessary, considering the player list shows an errant location anyways if the carrier jumps.
If docking on a carrier in combat is allowed by the rules, snubs could repeatedly dock and repair their hull through a carrier, forcing players to shoot down the larger ship. Of course this is roughly as much of a dick move as cap feeding if the opposing force has no means whatsoever to deal with the larger ship. At least it's a little more 'reasonable' in terms of mechanics, however.
If jumpdrives were overhauled to be a means of getting around rather than a means to avoid getting killed in PvP, they could be adapted so that docking on a carrier and then jumping the carrier could be a convenient way to move around snubcraft. This would give docking modules (even) more useful applications.
Yes, actually docked snubs remain in the docking bay even logoffed
RE: It's a Trap! Docking Modules and the player list. - KaiserDietz - 09-17-2014
Such coordination involves lots of alt tabbing and breaking game immersion. Can someone confirm whether ships stay in a carrier even when logged off?