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+--- Thread: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict (/showthread.php?tid=122070)
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Knjaz - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 03:40 PM)Timmy Wrote: I wonder if at least half of people who wote yes play in Rheinland.
Well, I do. Yeah, after all those numerous raids into Texasburg (
), then the total castration of ZOI and impossibility of raids into surrounding systems where players would actually be forces to get in a fight (and I go by the "You took the military/pirate ID to play with, get ready for a fight") - it's not really fun anymore. And that's with me playing for both sides, even if Rheinland was the primary one.Though, I sincerely hope that DevTeam would not turn Rheinland into second Kusari and would actually give it an activity hub to throw it's turtles at. Like, it'd be logical thing to do if you don't want the House to die.
Not like I do not share Govedo's and other folks thoughts on this particular... question, but I still have some hopes left.
Dragging Kusari into some kind of a conflict and letting them visit other people's turf with hostile intentions is a good idea too.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - An'shur - 10-23-2014
Just bring back those jump gates to functional status, forgot the "RM blown it" things. Behave like this development mistake never happened and see the activity rising. It is torture to get a turtle through Bering or Hudson. Please... repair the gates for restoring activity. War must continue, one Kusari is enough, as many people stated here.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - WesternPeregrine - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 04:06 PM)Anshur Wrote: Just bring back those jump gates to functional status, forgot the "RM blown it" things. Behave like this development mistake never happened and see the activity rising. It is torture to get a turtle through Bering or Hudson. Please... repair the gates for restoring activity. War must continue, one Kusari is enough, as many people stated here.
Never quite understood what "that problem" was. Is it hard to make them pass from Hamburg to Bering and Hudson (without the gates, through the jumpholes), or is it hard to pass through Bering and/or Hudson (crossing the systems, ignoring the lanes and the hostile bases, ignoring the Freeport?).
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - An'shur - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 04:11 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: "that problem"
Have you ever moved heavy battleship through asteroid field? In case of turtle it's like 1000x /stuck, with Marduk, it's even worse. I remember many raids where RM fleet moved to Bering and then was waiting 5-15 minutes for turtles before they dig through asteroids. Second problem is increased distance, many players are not raiding because they haven't much RL free time to spare. Another reason for decreased activity is, due to previous reasons too. The attacker allways can't gather really big fleet like during the old times, so small fleets are not raiding, because as soon as they come to raided area, defenders are spawning. This results in ganking the weaker attack force, LN or RM, depends on who attacks. Result is the same. Attacker is beaten and it's not motivating them to attack. And these all factors combined, killed the activity.
Also, why we have D9| here? This faction should provoke war between Kusari and Liberty.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - t0l - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 03:39 PM)Knjaz Wrote: snip
A lone fighter cannot dent your caps. A mass swarm of bombers can, but the Upholder is pretty chunky.
Also, that's the thing, you're an organized force over voice communications compared to somebody mistyping their "red on scaner!!!" setmsg in group chat and then subsequentially flying face first into your 11 cruiser fleet despite everyone telling him to stop.
While the Russian pubstompers didn't have a jumping turtle (even though project dragon was a horrific idea), there is usually a jumping turtle in most Texas raids. They fly in, when they get damaged enough or feed their bots away, they jump, and then return. Boring. Often enough, the 5 ships we can actually bother to come with us either die early or don't have enough firepower to kill a turtle in the 30 seconds the jumpdrive takes to rev up.
At the end, I was talking about vanilla losses. Not war losses.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Highland Laddie - 10-23-2014
Quote:Have you ever moved heavy battleship through asteroid field? In case of turtle it's like 1000x /stuck, with Marduk, it's even worse. I remember many raids where RM fleet moved to Bering and then was waiting 5-15 minutes for turtles before they dig through asteroids. Second problem is increased distance, many players are not raiding because they haven't much RL free time to spare. Another reason for decreased activity is, due to previous reasons too. The attacker allways can't gather really big fleet like during the old times, so small fleets are not raiding, because as soon as they come to raided area, defenders are spawning. This results in ganking the weaker attack force, LN or RM, depends on who attacks. Result is the same. Attacker is beaten and it's not motivating them to attack. And these all factors combined, killed the activity.
Jump Drives make your first two problems almost obsolete, as will the new carrier "teleporting" update.
As for boring fights and ganking...how will bringing back Texasburg change that?
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - An'shur - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 04:40 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:Quote:Have you ever moved heavy battleship through asteroid field? In case of turtle it's like 1000x /stuck, with Marduk, it's even worse. I remember many raids where RM fleet moved to Bering and then was waiting 5-15 minutes for turtles before they dig through asteroids. Second problem is increased distance, many players are not raiding because they haven't much RL free time to spare. Another reason for decreased activity is, due to previous reasons too. The attacker allways can't gather really big fleet like during the old times, so small fleets are not raiding, because as soon as they come to raided area, defenders are spawning. This results in ganking the weaker attack force, LN or RM, depends on who attacks. Result is the same. Attacker is beaten and it's not motivating them to attack. And these all factors combined, killed the activity.
Jump Drives make your first two problems almost obsolete, as will the new carrier "teleporting" update.
As for boring fights and ganking...how will bringing back Texasburg change that?
You are correct with JD and carrier update, but somehow... JDs are used for escaping, I have never saw ship jumping to battlefield. Maybe these are my naive beliefs, but bringing bringing back easy way to reach raided system would fix the problems I pointed. 1) No more turtle stucking and waiting for turtles in Bering. At all, no asteroids in the way. 2) Decreasing the distance back. RM/LN would just use tradelanes and gates to reach battlefield. People with less free time would be able to participate. 3) With more people able to raid, raiding fleets would be bigger, this would reduce the standard of "no win raid" scenario. Rising the activity back, but slowly, not as overnight as killing it. Making the problem is easy, but who seeds wind, harvests storm (Don't know if I translate this correctly, but I think you understand) Fixing the problem will take long way.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Highland Laddie - 10-23-2014
Quote:JDs are used for escaping, I have never saw ship jumping to battlefield.
That right there is part of the problem, not in the equipment or the game mechanics, but in your perception of their use.
Why not simply gather RM ships somewhere in New Berlin, then jump a raiding party right into Texas? You don't even have to fly through one lane/jump hole, or asteroid field. Also, the jump raiding aspect is fun because it adds the element of "needing to jump out" after the raid is over, which creates new excitement and RP (falling back under fire, etc.)
And again...the new Carrier features will supposedly make it THAT much easier to bring snubs along to a fight.
If you're just tired of raids with no consequence...then make a Dev Event that has an actual RP outcome and go THAT route.
Otherwise...we're always going to be subject to the Dev's desired outcome of the Lore, and whatever biases are therein. Somebody is gonna be a winner, somebody a loser in some ways.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Knjaz - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 04:53 PM)Anshur Wrote: You are correct with JD and carrier update, but somehow... JDs are used for escaping, I have never saw ship jumping to battlefield.
Well, that's the thing about Sirius and ZOIs.
Aside for Corsairs and Outcasts, nobody needs to "jump into battlefield" ability. If I were to choose between jumping into battlefield instead of traveling few minutes over TLs, and jumping out of it instead of dying - no wonder what any sane player would chose.
That being said, if you're lucky enough & have coords you can both jump into and out of the battlefield.
Anyway, back on topic: Yes, stop the Rheinland-Liberty war, but give something else in return. Otherwise it'll be activity killer for Rheinland. (Liberty got ****ton of active pirates and Gallia at it's doorstep).
(10-23-2014, 05:06 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Why not simply gather RM ships somewhere in New Berlin, then jump a raiding party right into Texas? You don't even have to fly through one lane/jump hole, or asteroid field. Also, the jump raiding aspect is fun because it adds the element of "needing to jump out" after the raid is over, which creates new excitement and RP (falling back under fire, etc.)
And then do what exactly? Camp the JG so Liberty never comes? Or stay somewhere in the system and await their arrival ? - in this case traveling by the lane and informing them in chat beforehand works just as well.
Jumping into system only works if you're actually planning to surprise someone - but for that to happen there should be someone in the system in first place, which often isn't the case with TX for example.
As for jumping out under fire - only possible with carriers and docking modules. You won't be able to jump out with a group jumpship, otherwise - or you'll need very good timings and coordination.
Only instanes where "jumping into the fight, while sacrificing the ability to jump out" becomes relevant from PvP view is - Outcast raids on the edge of their ZOI (Liberty/Gamma), Corsair raids on the edge of their ZOI (Bretonia, Rheinland, Alpha).
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - t0l - 10-23-2014
Red Hessians seem to be making a comeback now, and I'd gladly pick up a Vidar to shoot at RM and vice versa.