+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict (/showthread.php?tid=122070)
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Geolog - 10-23-2014
Quote:Seek my edited post. Also, KuExiles only posses handful of destroyers with ONE battleship.
They have 2 BSes. One currently in Tau-29 and one in Russelion (or whatever is that system written.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - An'shur - 10-23-2014
Little comparation here
Kusari vs Bretonia in past
Kusari got it's fleet destroyed due to the Nomad War.
Kusari had infected governor and significant portion of Naval Forces.
Bretonia was least affected house in the war.
Result: Kusari was near conquering Leeds. They were winning the war.
Rheinland vs Liberty
Rheinland got it's fleet destroyed due to the Nomad War.
Rheinland was the most infected house in the war.
Liberty was in fact the second most infected house, more than Kusari, or at least the same.
Result: Liberty isn't harmed by Rheinland.
I see the double standard situation here.
What the [TBH] lore says about Rheinland?
-Our reconnaissance ships could not detect the size of the Rheinland forces deployed in Frankfurt. When our ships jumped in, they were met by the full force of two Rheinland Military battlegroups, commanded by Admiral Krieg and Admiral Hiltraud. Though pushed back to Planet Holstein, the Rheinland Military significantly dented the morale of our Northern Fleet. Subsequently, the fleet was decimated in a series of retaliatory strikes by Rheinland Military forces in the area.
-The operation was a complete failure. No one could have foreseen such a turn of events. No one could have foreseen the hidden strength of the Rheinland Military.
-Rheinland is now at war with Liberty, a force twice their size.
From third point of view, Rheinland don't look as raped as Liberty says.
Tal pointed something about ganks.
Rheinland 11 misisle cruisers vs Liberty dreadnought ganks
Rheinland jumpturtles vs Liberty cloak dreads ( 5th have 4 or 5 cloak dreads as I know)
Two bases in Texas weren't at current positions in vanila. The moon, Huntsville and Mississippi looks like they are placed there intentionally to provide ultra-cover to lolns, to be hugged to death. I hope I am only paranoic in this way.
We can only compare who is worse ganker, but admit this: Everyone is ganking. This is multiplayer game, there isn't any way to prevent ganks.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Highland Laddie - 10-23-2014
Let's not forget that if Rheinland allies itself with Gallia and attacks Liberty, it would also be vulnerable to attacks from Hessians or even Bretonia (yes...this House is still alive, people). Rheinland doesn't have the resources to fight a war on multiple fronts any more than Kusari or Bretonia would.
IMO, the most logical course of action would be a cease-fire and joint cooperation between ALL Houses and independent factions to counter and end the Gallic threat first, and then resume their own agendas afterward.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - MÃmir - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 02:11 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: IMO, the most logical course of action would be a cease-fire and joint cooperation between ALL Houses and independent factions to counter and end the Gallic threat first, and then resume their own agendas afterward.
That's probably what's "scripted" to happen, but in all honesty isn't that the dullest and most unimaginative conclusion to the story ever?
Also these discussions of "nation X is so and so stronk, so this is what is going to happen" are really incredibly stupid, in all due respect. History has shown us countless times that this is not how it works in reality - it only works in computer games with flat stats that are easily comparable.
It's as pointless as it is a mindless exercise.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - t0l - 10-23-2014
Competant Russian pubstompers with voice chat using spammy loadouts vs 12 year old American kids who don't know how to use the right version of there/their/they're.
Cruisers that can thrust and move faster while missiling snubs compared to a dreadnought that goes 90 m/s and has a handful of weapons.
Rheinland Jumpturtles who can jump out, restock, and reenter the fight again later with a full storage of B/B for feeding fleet members compared to a decloaking Lib Dread that can provide support for a few seconds before being gunned down because no shields.
Battleship should always have been there, and so has the Huntsville, although I think they were shifted around orbit slightly.
[TBH] lore never stated the size of their fleet, so if they jumped in with an unimaginably smaller force and got smashed, then it's not really "super ultra powerful". It also says that Liberty is a force twice the size of Rheinland, which means that they're benefitting the Corsair cause by weakening the Rheinland fleet.
Kusari never lost a battleship in vanilla, Rheinland lost one or two, but had far less to begin with while Liberty lost 3 with the most to begin with and a booming economy. Liberty's president, Jacobi, never succombed to the Nomads, while Tekagi and most Rheinlandic officials were infected.
From what I heard, Kusari/Bretonia war was more or less a struggle over Tau-31, until Gallia arrived. No clear winner, just pew.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - SnakThree - 10-23-2014
Do we want second Kusari? Hell no.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - An'shur - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 02:20 PM)Tal Wrote: Russian pubstompers
Please find another words if you want to insult Rheinland players. This sounds really offensive in ooRP way. You know what I mean.
(10-23-2014, 02:20 PM)Tal Wrote: Rheinland Jumpturtles who can jump out, restock, and reenter the fight again later with a full storage of B/B for feeding fleet members compared to a decloaking Lib Dread that can provide support for a few seconds before being gunned down because no shields.
I agree here.
(10-23-2014, 02:20 PM)Tal Wrote: [TBH] lore never stated the size of their fleet, so if they jumped in with an unimaginably smaller force and got smashed, then it's not really "super ultra powerful". It also says that Liberty is a force twice the size of Rheinland, which means that they're benefitting the Corsair cause by weakening the Rheinland fleet.
Another part of [TBH] lore states that The Brotherhood rebuild their fleet in ten years, this part: "Ten years on, and the fleets have been rebuilt. A new generation of young and headstrong pilots are maturing, and we are once again prepared to rid the Omegas of the Hessian scourge."
So what the hell was Rheinland doing within the same or even longer time? Even economically weak and hungry corsairs were able to rebuild their own fleet.
(10-23-2014, 02:20 PM)Tal Wrote: From what I heard, Kusari/Bretonia war was more or less a struggle over Tau-31, until Gallia arrived. No clear winner, just pew.
Kusari got to Stokes station in Leeds. I think it was clear enough to say that Kusari was winning.
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Knjaz - 10-23-2014
(10-22-2014, 07:50 PM)Alley Wrote: Disclaimer: Not going to go in the lore specifics in this thread.
This is something that should have been done for a long time now, this thing has been going on for more than four years.
The problem here is that we don't have as many players as we used to have, and several people believe ending this war will put an end to the last active battlefield.
Of course, ending this war means we'll create new battlefields, we're not going to leave Rheinland without a major one or two (or three? hue). Liberty would get its share as well.
For reference, one of the examples a community member used was that if we made the Hessians expand further into Rheinland, the absence of Hessian opponents would turn Rheinland into a dead place like Kusari and it wouldn't actually create a new battlefield.
You're all going to have a chance to voice your opinion on that matter, and specifically if the war should be finally put to an end. This only about the impact of a decision like this on the server itself, not on the lore, so don't bother posting lore stuff.
Didn't read the rest of the thread except for Tal's post related to Rheinland gloriouz raidz.
Anyway, let people to gather a fleet and throw it somewhere. Or outright start a Sirius "World War, with Kusari/Rheinland/Gallia vs Liberty/Bretonia. With generous ZOI's for all factions, so you can actually visit the place where other party's ships are logged, or very close to that spot to avoid "spawn camping".
This promotes quick/easy response and a good general activity, as a result.
(10-22-2014, 07:58 PM)Mirdynn_BE Wrote: And them perhaps the Kusari-Liberty war breaks out?
YES PLEASE. Give Kusari navy players a new meaning in life. (same reasoning as behind Rheinland, let people to gather a fleet and throw it somewhere).
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Highland Laddie - 10-23-2014
Quote:That's probably what's "scripted" to happen, but in all honesty isn't that the dullest and most unimaginative conclusion to the story ever?
Also these discussions of "nation X is so and so stronk, so this is what is going to happen" are really incredibly stupid, in all due respect. History has shown us countless times that this is not how it works in reality - it only works in computer games with flat stats that are easily comparable.
It's as pointless as it is a mindless exercise.
It happens in all kinds of stories. Former enemies unite against a common foe. I think this would have been LESS of the case if the devs had not made Gallia into a steamrolling powerhouse, but maybe instead a slightly stronger faction than say Liberty. That was the biggest lore mistake, and I truly truly wish it would be corrected.
Also, regarding strong vs supposedly weak nations - there's also plenty of RL examples of weaker nations successfully defending themselves and defeating larger, more power empires (Greeks @ Marathon, British @ Trafalgar, etc.) So, I don't see how or why anything has to be so set in stone that folks keep saying Bretonia is dead simply because they lost Leeds, or that faction X is dead because of blah blah blah.
Quote:Kusari got to Stokes station in Leeds. I think it was clear enough to say that Kusari was winning.
Again...so winning 1 station means you've won the war? Hardly. The different dynamics & elements involved in warfare are far more complex.
Quote:Anyway, let people to gather a fleet and throw it somewhere. Or outright start a Sirius "World War, with Kusari/Rheinland/Gallia vs Liberty/Bretonia.
So, what do you do with Corsairs, Outcasts, Zoners, IMG, Junkers, etc?
RE: End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict - Blodo - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 02:34 PM)Anshur Wrote: So what the hell was Rheinland doing within the same or even longer time? Even economically weak and hungry corsairs were able to rebuild their own fleet.Don't dismiss Sairs so fast when it comes to building ships. They might have big food issues, but (in lore) raw materials for ship building and ship building facilities aren't a problem for them. It's how they can afford to send young pilots out in new ships to prove themselves before they can become big bad pirates.