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+--- Thread: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 (/showthread.php?tid=122168)
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RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Tigger - 10-27-2014
I"m all for it. Both for mined ore and the normal commodity metals (gold, silver, beryllium, scrap, premium scrap).
Last night in separate encounters I cargo pirated 5k of mined gold ore in Dublin. The best sell point for Mollys is in Gallia - quite a long trip when your main interest is in piracy. With only 23 people on the server, the nearest junker I could identify was in Bering.
Thus, a moderate sell point in O52 would be nice. Mollys and the Coalition have good relations and for two years I personally did RP trade runs to their system with food, pharmaceuticals and various other trade items which I'd cargo pirated.
Adding scrap as well as for various ores would also work for junker types who mine in New London, and Mollys who cargo pirate the Bery from miners in Cambridge.
- jeni
Edit to add: Before I left Disco a while back, as Molly lead we negotiated for inRP expansion of Coalition & Hessian shipyards as well as our own. The legal trade status Mollys held with Gallia permitted Mollys to trade Dublin Gold and Hessian DIamonds in Gallia for both cash and the resources our three factions require for military (and civil) expansion. For the Triumvirate we have the Corsairs on our doorsteps and for Mollys we have Bretonia & Gallia knocking at the back door.
Mollys know that their trade agreement with Gallia will be broken at some point so they have sought to squeeze out every last bit of money and resources they can through the Gaul pipeline so that all three allied factions can stand ready to fight our enemies in force. Having actual points in O52 to sell to instead of just pretending to in game, is both needed and justified.
-tapatalk ate my spelling & grammar
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Lonely_Ghost - 10-27-2014
I say it's a very nice idea.
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Mímir - 10-27-2014
(10-27-2014, 08:55 AM)Tabris Wrote: We are very similar to China in terms of the Economy
How so? Do Coalition have an overwhelming workforce able to outnumber and outproduce the rest of Sirius?
How do you plan on having an economy "very similar to China" when the majority of the rest of Sirius consider you hostile, and thus cannot be your trade partners / targets for export?
I think it's a terrible idea, diluting Coalition, while being based on an underlying pillar of capitalism.
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Tabris - 10-27-2014
Mimir, the Chinese economy is a Mixed-Economy, the state still has a say, but it also allows SOME private enterprises (Such as Volgograd Industrial). The Coalition is not MEANT to be a cookie-cutter copy of the Soviet Union with a Central Planned Economy.
Zhukovsky Station was even owned by IND (although still under Coalition Control) to facilitate the export of Coalition goods outside of Omega-52 to both Allied and Neutral parties. (Although likely the IND also slipped some shipments to other customers, gotta earn a profit right?)
Having a large work-force while it helps does not a China make.
And yes it's true most if not all the Houses hate us we still have allies and friends, such as the Mollys, Hessians. LWB, TAZ/Zoners and acouple other organizations who are willing to buy/sell to/from us.
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Echo 7-7 - 10-27-2014
If this were to happen, Ores would be selling at unlawful rates - half or less than the equivalent profit for the same distance to a lawful base.
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Tigger - 10-27-2014
(10-27-2014, 12:00 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: If this were to happen, Ores would be selling at unlawful rates - half or less than the equivalent profit for the same distance to a lawful base.
That makes perfect sense and I wouldn't expect more.
Back in 4.85 when mining in Leeds for transports it'd get sold in New Berlin and the transport would pay me half the value. Likewise when solo mining in a hegemon in Leeds I could fly myself to the Gateway base in New London to sell the ore at roughly around 50% of it's Rheinland sale value.
Shorter trip = lesser sale price. It makes sense.
If doing a Molly mining operation yeah, we'd go to our best sale point in Gallia. When doing cargo piracy O-52 is worth it at 50% value (same as I'd get as a miner) for a short hop and back to the piracy business. Likewise for pirating on a Hessian ship, though I still need to rebuild one. (yes I prefer to pirate cargo than do the 2mil or die crap)
It works!
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Mímir - 10-27-2014
(10-27-2014, 11:48 AM)Tabris Wrote: Mimir, the Chinese economy is a Mixed-Economy, the state still has a say, but it also allows SOME private enterprises (Such as Volgograd Industrial). The Coalition is not MEANT to be a cookie-cutter copy of the Soviet Union with a Central Planned Economy.
But isn't the truth that China's model only works because it can produce in extreme quantities at a low cost for export markets? None of which the Coalition - to my knowledge - can do.
If you are going to import commodities / ores, you'll need Sirian credit reserves, which can only really be generated from export. So what does the Coalition export? And to whom? And what effect does it have on the populace that you adopt a foreign economic system, at least in parts, which could be seen as a sign of the Coalition submitting to the rest of Sirius? Isn't that a display of weakness, of defeatism among its leaders? Maybe even... corruption? Especially on the back of siding with monarchical Bretonia through that NAP - if I was a coalition citizen, I'd think my leaders were corrupt through and through, fraternizing with bourgeoise foreign royalists and shipping off the best things the Coalition produces to foreign markets, while importing commodities and ores produced in a capitalist economic system, while I get nothing to show for it.
In real-life China the trade-off is a significantly heightened standard of living for almost all, but that is only because China has such an impressive production output and an export market with an unstoppable appetite for more of everything, as long as it is cheap. Otherwise the revenue will not be sufficient to significantly improve living conditions for the bottom tiers of society, and civil unrest will follow.
P.S.: What I am trying to say is that it is a drastic move, and it would be awesome to see some roleplay / development to account for the negative aspects of linking up to a mainstream inter-stellar capitalist economy, rather than it just becomes "hey here's a sell point 'cus that would be nice".
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Tabris - 10-27-2014
The New Economic Policy has been in place for YEARS Mimir, this isn't implementing a 'new' economic sideswipe, this is simply the Coalition acting upon current policies already in place. And China's model isn't SOLELY based upon the workforce, also you forget that this is not the 21st century, this is HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of years later, not everything will work as one would expect it by 21st century standards, the advent of robotic drones and more efficient machinery help overcome many of the issues concerning manufacturing/manpower
Years ago the Coalition was basicly in a Soviet-Styled Economy, this eventually ended up crashing/burning which required a change in the policies that governed the economic system, in comes Katz, fresh with new ideas on how to save the Economy, over the years it's implemented and the economy slowly recovers from it's burning.
And it is mentioned in the Sirius Coalition Wiki that portions of the more conservative members of the party are concerned it's a step backwards, however there is simply little they can do about it, the Military and Ministry of Truth frankly have their hands tied, all they can do right now is simply voice their concerns in the State Duma and make calls for a roll-back.
It also helps that we are not simply buying from the Houses, but dissident movements such as the Red Hessians and Mollys and organizations that simply don't want anything to do with the Houses and their tight rules.
Remember kids, future-tech, regular conventions don't always apply.
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Tigger - 10-28-2014
I don't see that the Coalition *buying* raw materials as being someohow & inexplicably giving up on their socialist RP at all. They have inRP a strong industrial base. Allowing them in game to purchase raw materials they have been purchasing inRP for ages is a good thing. In order to manufacture something you have to have the raw materials with which to perform that manufacturing.
Take for instance the fact that Mollys produce ship hull panels in Newcastle and those items can be carried to O52 and sold at the Coalition shipyard. Since 4.86 had the triumvirate of Coalition, Hessians, Mollys working together to expand their combined industrial & ship building base for coming major warfare. When 4.86 was released its lore had a heavy Corsair expansion into O49, though in game it actually occurred in Cambridge because there were more people to fight. It was due to the lore that the Mollys built the Coin over the O49 jump hole for defensive reasons, not to irritate indy zoners & junkers.
Anyway, I used to personally do a lot of in game travels to Coalition & Hessian territories carrying cheap goods just so that I could RP that it was much more important items needed for the war effort. At least with 4.86 and the introduction of POBs I could carry something useful in game for those groups (food, water, oxygen, basic alloys).
The primary point being that the role play for multiple years has been expansion and growth, which require more raw materials. Having an opportunity to actually carry those raw materials to the Coalition is a good thing. It's fine to just talk about it in role play, but sometimes it's just fun to actually do it in game.
- jeni
- tapatalk ate my spelling & grammar
RE: A (moderate) sell point for all ores in Omega 52 - Echo 7-7 - 10-28-2014
The addition of these Ore sale points is a gameplay modification only and would not reflect the Coalition's capability for production.
Anyway, the correct location to file this request is here.