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+--- Thread: Idea: Radar Invisibilty (/showthread.php?tid=122789)
Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Fluffyball - 11-13-2014
I have been pondering about the very neat feature with item, which would be very similiar to the Cloaks, but... it wouldn't make you invisible.
Why not to implent the item, which would make you like... invisible for the radar? How would that work though? Well, like this:
You activate item, but do not require any fuel for that, because from the roleplay point of view you will be like... turning off all the electronics and turning on ECM the ship, rendering you still visible for players, but unvisible for radars. Sounds easy?
Pros --
- You cannot be targeted.
- You do not appear on the radar.
- You do not appear as a selectable target.
- You can still cruise (this however additionally gives your positon).
- You are "invisible" to the NPC vessels.
Cons --
- Your vessel is still visible.
- You cannot shoot.
- You don't have shield*.
- Both energy and shield will have to regenerate after "turning up" everything.
The thing is the item would be only useable for small vessels (like fighters, freighters), yet shield and energy will have to regen for a while (up to 1 minute), so cloaks would be still superior. Keep in mind you will be STILL visible as a vessel.
[[We could also balance that it would be only available for up to 1-2 minutes and recharge would be 5, but keep in mind this is still way inferior to the cloak, because you are still visible, especially using the cruise engines.]]
Why would we want to implent it? From the roleplay point of view, smuggler would just enter nebula, turn off all the electronics, sit in place and wait until the law enfoncers will drop the chase.
RE: Idea: ECM - t0l - 11-13-2014
With cloaks getting the ammo change in the near future (iirc), I don't get the point. If you're running in a straight line and you disable everything with the Police in pursuit, they're probably still going to find you. If they see you on scanner range, they probably already know where you are and you're only a sitting duck. Cloaks would be infinitely superior in this case and in all other cases once the buffs come in.
This isn't even ECM, it's more of just turn-your-ship-off, akin to MechWarrior's system where you can dodge missile lock by shutting yourself down. I don't think you'd need ECM if you shut everything off either, because you still won't be transmitting signals and crap.
A more ECM-y ECM would be to have a device that fits in your ship and takes up some cargo space that effectively reduces radar range of people around you by a set amount, essentially making you a flying nebula. Something like this would help for military/pirate surprise attacks or help reduce the chance of you being spotted by the 5-0 in a transport.
RE: Idea: ECM - Fluffyball - 11-13-2014
(11-13-2014, 09:58 PM)Tal Wrote: With cloaks getting the ammo change in the near future (iirc), I don't get the point. If you're running in a straight line and you disable everything with the Police in pursuit, they're probably still going to find you. If they see you on scanner range, they probably already know where you are and you're only a sitting duck. Cloaks would be infinitely superior in this case and in all other cases once the buffs come in.
This isn't even ECM, it's more of just turn-your-ship-off, akin to MechWarrior's system where you can dodge missile lock by shutting yourself down. I don't think you'd need ECM if you shut everything off either, because you still won't be transmitting signals and crap.
A more ECM-y ECM would be to have a device that fits in your ship and takes up some cargo space that effectively reduces radar range of people around you by a set amount, essentially making you a flying nebula. Something like this would help for military/pirate surprise attacks or help reduce the chance of you being spotted by the 5-0 in a transport.
This would be an alternative to the very expensive cloaks and bring again some roleplay activity to the smuggling with freighters (which are rather fast). And note that it would be only available for the small vessels, like freighters and fighters (that can't have cloaks), perhaps bombers as well. Yeah, turning the ship off, not actual ECM though.
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Highland Laddie - 11-13-2014
(11-13-2014, 09:58 PM)Tal Wrote: With cloaks getting the ammo change in the near future (iirc), I don't get the point. If you're running in a straight line and you disable everything with the Police in pursuit, they're probably still going to find you. If they see you on scanner range, they probably already know where you are and you're only a sitting duck. Cloaks would be infinitely superior in this case and in all other cases once the buffs come in.
This isn't even ECM, it's more of just turn-your-ship-off, akin to MechWarrior's system where you can dodge missile lock by shutting yourself down. I don't think you'd need ECM if you shut everything off either, because you still won't be transmitting signals and crap.
A more ECM-y ECM would be to have a device that fits in your ship and takes up some cargo space that effectively reduces radar range of people around you by a set amount, essentially making you a flying nebula. Something like this would help for military/pirate surprise attacks or help reduce the chance of you being spotted by the 5-0 in a transport.
This proposal isn't necessarily a replacement for cloaks. It's a different tactic. I would find it particularly useful for laying in ambush in asteroid and gas fields.
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Fluffyball - 11-13-2014
This is not replacement for a Cloak, as Highland pointed out, as it would be used only onto small vessels and provide different tactics, like ambushes or smugglers escaping and hiding into asteroid field / nebulaes. This would provide more usage of the freighters though.
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - t0l - 11-13-2014
(11-13-2014, 10:58 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:(11-13-2014, 09:58 PM)Tal Wrote: With cloaks getting the ammo change in the near future (iirc), I don't get the point. If you're running in a straight line and you disable everything with the Police in pursuit, they're probably still going to find you. If they see you on scanner range, they probably already know where you are and you're only a sitting duck. Cloaks would be infinitely superior in this case and in all other cases once the buffs come in.
This isn't even ECM, it's more of just turn-your-ship-off, akin to MechWarrior's system where you can dodge missile lock by shutting yourself down. I don't think you'd need ECM if you shut everything off either, because you still won't be transmitting signals and crap.
A more ECM-y ECM would be to have a device that fits in your ship and takes up some cargo space that effectively reduces radar range of people around you by a set amount, essentially making you a flying nebula. Something like this would help for military/pirate surprise attacks or help reduce the chance of you being spotted by the 5-0 in a transport.
This proposal isn't necessarily a replacement for cloaks. It's a different tactic. I would find it particularly useful for laying in ambush in asteroid and gas fields.
alternatively just put on a cloak and ambush people anywhere, i mean ok
In addition, light cloaks are relatively cheap (70-80 mil iirc) for smaller vessels, and the majority of players can get a larger cloak in 3 trade runs. Cloak changes that are coming up will make light cloaks viable for small craft (ie freighters, im looking at you, Grizzly)
Most players are persistant. They'll continue looking for you unless they've got something better to do, which means that in the end you're still better off cloaking and running away. I don't see a point when an already implemented tool does it ten times better and is easily available and abundant (you can bet your ass cloaks will become much more widely produced when the changes roll out, now that they're practical).
It's a cool idea, but I don't see the point in adding another feature that'll be abandoned for the superior option. (see all armor that isnt AU8, HAU4, and CAU8)
ECMs and Shutting Down Ship Systems - Alphablood1 - 11-13-2014
Ok for one if you shutdown everything that includes the engines fully keep that in mind
ECM is equipment and would work like any other equipment but i think the community should think of the idea to shutdown your ship for like RP purposes like /shields but /core which would deactivate your ship or reactivate your ship
ECM is Good For
- Combat (Can Still Engage and Move About
- Not Defenseless
Bad For
- Uses Cargo Space
- Uses Energy
- Limited To Ship Classes
- Expensive
Ship System Shutdown
Is Good For
-Cheap
-On Every Ship
-Dosnt Use Energy
Bad For
-Cannot Move or Engage
-All Systems Disabled and Powered Down
-No Defenses or Engines
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Fluffyball - 11-14-2014
The second one is useless kinda, and ECM makes it in fact akin of the Cloak (and Cloak will be chosen over ECM). I wanted it to use it onto the smallest vessels, because those could escape easily and smuggle things around (try finding something that moves 400m/s). I proposed it as a very cheap option for smugglers in small freighters, not another Cloak-like thing.
Also, it would be pointless on a cruiser to just turn down everything in the asteroid field, this is visible from like 15K or even more.
You can't use cloak if you want to smuggle things around though, because it wouldn't be efficient and not profitable for you. But not being visible on the radar, why not? It would be more for smuggling things, because:
1 - you can have shield and weps and they will see you from long distance
or
2 - you have no shield and no weaponry active yet they won't see you until they will notice your small vessel.
Believe me, try to turn off the hud and try to see any vessel around you, check how far it is and think about it.
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Haste - 11-14-2014
Isn't this essentially just Elite: Dangerous' silent running?
I don't think we need more ways for players to run away from or completely avoid interaction.
Although replacing cloaks by something more imperfect sounds appealing.
Keyword being replacing (:
RE: Idea: Radar Invisibilty - Caconym - 11-14-2014
It's a nice idea, however the main problem is that compared to the upcoming cloak buff, it's going to be next to completely useless, except if you were to run out of cloak fuel, for example. Furthermore, it would allow players to afk or autopilot off the plane and be completely invisible to scanners no matter how hard you tried, making finding them a little harder. So as long as it can be used to afk off the plane or do completely silent trade runs outside of visual range from normal players, then no.