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+--- Thread: Jump Hole Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=123191)
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Jump Hole Suggestion - Vogel - 11-27-2014
That other thread reminded me of something. Might as well mention it before I lose track of the thought again:
Jump holes in the original game were anomalies that had to be "phase-aligned" for use. You never see anything larger than a freighter enter one. For the most part they act as convenient plot-expedients but let's take it a bit more seriously, shall we?
Jump holes are obviously not unknown. It's impossible for the average pilot to not know they exist, even if they may not know their locations. So why aren't they used more often, considering they're effectively free Jumpgates going to the same systems? We have the phase-aligned excuse but that seems a bit droll, so let's spice it up a bit in a way that fits the universe:
Jump holes are unstable. Instead of a controlled action-reaction process, you're relying on the fickleness of nature. They are not safe enough to be judged suitable by the average, civilian pilot on the rounds, but this doesn't stop the brave (explorers, military) or the desperate (criminals, pirates) from using them. But they come at a cost:
What if there was a random chance for damage by taking jump holes? You can randomize the amount, though I'd advise against 100% death. You could also scale the likelihood of damage based on ship size. What effects would this have?
- This would justify the common use of snubcraft by bandits and pirates alike, since larger vessels are more risky away from their home ports.
- In doing so, it would do a part in limiting the "sphere of influence" of such groups without friendly ports of call, encouraging inter-faction diplomacy and POB landing rights.
- This would also place the impetus on snubcraft during scouting and skirmishing, and could explain why Rheinland and Bretonia would both blow up their gates even though they could just use jump drives.
The very notion of jump drive damage lends credence to it being applied here, so why not?
The counter-arguments are obvious, but it's not too difficult to rebut most of them:
- "It's not fun to have to pay money for random damage!"
-> Yet we have radiation fields? We also have a notorious lack of ship maintenance and fuel costs, resulting in fighters that can go from one end of the map to the other without stopping once for anything at all, assuming they don't run into other players... and that happens now.
- "You're limiting roleplay!"
-> Is it limiting it, or is it protecting it? Does it make good roleplaying sense that a single fighter can do the above without a hitch? How about a single battleship? Have you ever heard of a contemporary navy vessel operating without any kind of resupply, nor having any maintenance concerns, for years on end? Besides, wouldn't this support the function of POBs as supply stops? Why shouldn't the in-universe "sense" be portrayed via game mechanics?
- "It could screw up fights between fleets by randomly damaging ships enroute!"
-> All war is deception, and all war is risk. Why are you fighting at all if you're afraid of dying? Besides, the absolute worst choice to be made here is to have insta-kill jumpholes, which is not what I'm suggesting. But what's wrong with having even 75% damage for gargantuan dreadnaughts that try to lollygag far from home? Isn't that what Repair Ships are for, or are we still divorcing in-universe sense from game mechanics?
- "It shuts down trade!"
-> Alternatively it gives freighters a reason for existing despite having low cargo counts. Alternatively it gives a good reason for smugglers to use gates and therefore run into lawfuls. Again, there's no need for instant destruction, but why not introduce an element of risk? Isn't risk fun? Why are you playing a game about being blown up in space (and in a roleplaying environment for that matter) if you're that afraid of risk?
- "It's technically impossible!"
Aaaaaaand the coups de grace, because I honestly don't know if it is or not... but I'm guessing most folks reading this topic don't know either, and so I will still propose this idea based on the fact that there are a million other things that have been done with the Freelancer engine. A bit of randomized HP damage based on ship class doesn't seem terribly out of the ordinary, and it's a lot more gameplay-focused than some of the additions thus far.
So why not? Doesn't it make sense that deep-space travel is risky? Shouldn't we provide in-game, mechanic-driven reasons to have things like POB pit-stops and fleet repair ships (**which are prohibited from feeding bots/bats during combat?**)
It's a minor suggestion in the scheme of things, but the point I'm trying to make is this: If an addition does not support a roleplay feature using in-game mechanics, then it is, at best, a burden for the admins who have to oversee it, and, at worst, a distraction from badly needed gameplay improvements that actively counter forumlancing trends and push players into the server.
Thoughts?
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - sindroms - 11-27-2014
Jump holes are stable. By lore it is Ageira propoganda that tells otherwise.
Anyway, JH damage would give no RP or Gameplay benefit, really. Only another chore.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - Vogel - 11-27-2014
(11-27-2014, 05:54 AM)sindroms Wrote: Jump holes are stable. By lore it is Ageira propoganda that tells otherwise.Considering the fact that there are three additional countries and an entire border/edge world civilization running in carefree abandon, not to mention two pirate homeworlds and dozens of anti-government and corporate factions that have every interest in proving propaganda wrong to whomever would listen, to say nothing of a myriad number of freelancers like Edison Trent using jumpholes on a regular basis and evidently having no problem dealing with regular society... I'd like to see proof of this. Proof not coming from a Discovery-based Ageira faction.
Quote:Anyway, JH damage would give no RP or Gameplay benefit, really. Only another chore.How on Earth is anybody expected to respond seriously to something this insulting to their intelligence? I just provided a gigantic list of reasons why it would work, with supporting examples. And that's the best you got? "It gives no benefit?" Really?
Really?
Are you trying to troll me? Baiting me into swearing or something? Good God.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - sindroms - 11-27-2014
Good god, Vogel.
For someone claiming to be a vet, even though they haven't touched the game for three years since their last visit and being completely clueless about everything that has happened over that time, you do claim to know a lot of things about people playing here, and are quick to remind others, especially those from around 2013, how you are better than them.
Keep it up. I think the community needs a new punching bag by now.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - Vogel - 11-27-2014
Try character assassination on someone else, Sindroms, and get back onto the topic. Address my points, each individually, and provide good, logical reasons why they are incorrect and would not accomplish what I claim they might. Explain why they are not useful, other than the fact that they came from me, and maybe, after doing that, I'll have reason to believe you actually hold the moral authority required to wield such threats.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - sindroms - 11-27-2014
(11-27-2014, 05:07 AM)Vogel Wrote: Thoughts?
(11-27-2014, 05:54 AM)sindroms Wrote: Only another chore.
You asked people to comment their thoughts on this. I think I did so quite nicely, without having to type up seven paragraphs worth of filler to do so.
All your suggestion does is add a useless mechanic, which will bring nothing but another chore.
But please, if comments with people agreeing with your idea is what you seek, edit your first post and say so. If you are not ready to accept that someone might disagree with you, why would you even post here in the first place then?
Oh, and curling up in a fetal position, breathing heavily and yelling something about
(11-27-2014, 06:01 AM)Vogel Wrote: Are you trying to troll me? Baiting me into swearing or something? Good God.and
(11-27-2014, 06:11 AM)Vogel Wrote: Try character assassination
Only works on feminist tumblr. Not Disco.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - Vogel - 11-27-2014
(11-27-2014, 06:18 AM)sindroms Wrote: You asked people to comment their thoughts on this. I think I did so quite nicely, without having to type up seven paragraphs worth of filler to do so.So in other words, you probably don't have good reasons. After all, the purpose of both posting and responding to topics on a Discussion Board is the Discussion of the ideas in them. If the ideas are dismissed summarily, there is no discussion to be had. You haven't even provided an identical thread from the past where you debated, and won that debate, or at least presented your reasoning, or had sufficient reasoning from someone else. A simple link would have sufficed. So where is it?
Quote:But please, if comments with people agreeing with your idea is what you seek, edit your first post and say so. If you are not ready to accept that someone might disagree with you, why would you even post here in the first place then?Disagreement as opposed to argument? Summary dismissal versus constructive critique? The request for "Thoughts" implies thoughts, not feelings. Nobody wants "agreement" or "disagreement" when they're asking for thoughts about Ideas.
Still waiting for you to get back on-topic.
Quote:Oh, and curling up in a fetal position, breathing heavily and yelling something aboutMore libel, character assassination, etc... Still not back on topic.
...
Only works on feminist tumblr. Not Disco.
Are you finished, Sindroms? I'd like to come back from work tomorrow and see people discussing the merits of this idea, not a topic full of your fantasies about my being in a fetal position.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - Loki557 - 11-27-2014
I see a huge problem with this idea and factions with caps that mainly exist in system with no JG only JH(omicron factions primarily).
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - SnakThree - 11-27-2014
Risk is fun. Random damage isn't. I want to feel excitement when facing people, not game mechanics.
RE: Jump Hole Suggestion - sindroms - 11-27-2014
If you really want to be technical about it, here.
https://www.google.lv/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:discoverygc.com+%22jumphole+damage%22&safe=off&filter=0
This link shows all mentions of jumphole damage and threads where they were brought up and, as you might have guessed, shot down by the devteam. My point is, what you described in the first post was a makebeleive world of Disco, which does not exist in reality ingame. Your suggestion is interesting and would make sense, but it has no room in our current ingame activities.
The description you wrote up seems to be something someone who has little to no online time for Disco would THINK is how the ingame works and what people want from the ingame experience. I assure you- it is not. You described the idea in a manner as if you have never been on our server before. And considering you joined and left barely a year after playing, only to dissappear for almost 4 years, confirms that.
This is not about whether or not this could be done. I am simply pointing out that your logic and reasoning is inherently flawed, because you simply are not up to speed on what we do in Disco these days.