+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Jumping out of combat... (/showthread.php?tid=123727)
RE: Jumping out of combat... - t0l - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 01:35 PM)black widow3 Wrote:(12-16-2014, 01:21 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I for one would like to see this mechanic removed because it's really stupid. Jack pretty much lists all of my arguments.
However, as a means to make it more useful again, why don't we make jumping much more accurate? Remove the need for survey modules and that rubbish, just allow anyone (for example another military ship on the jumpers side during an engagement) to do command like /getcoordinates and then these coordinates can be relayed to a jumper for easy and accurate jumping.
This thing jack speaks of is not a problem of the JD but of the opposing side, if you can't keep tabs on the jumpers then attack them first then you shouldn't be fighting.
Let me concentrate on the jumpship and watch as everyone else dies to the rest of the enemy fleet while the ship still manages to jump away because he hits the button early.
Good plan.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - sindroms - 12-16-2014
Features making our mod unique are important.
Having them fall under the concept of Counter Play is also important.
Most of the time when a battleship starts charging their drive, it is physically impossible to quickly have everyone switch on him as the target. Just like CMs have a certain precentage of ability to catch CDs, the jumpdrive must leave at least some chance for the other side to kill the player doing so.
Especially if they keep doing so 15 times in a row.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 01:28 PM)black widow3 Wrote: No it is not totally stupid, it's a great fail safe against gank fleets.
From the way you describe infinitely jumping bot factories just shows me you have no idea about jumping at all or the mechanics involved in it.
No one uses combat jumping to botfeed people that I have seen anyway.
It is used as a means of escape, I use it to escape when I am being ganked.
Having the ability to return to a fight does not make you invincible as you are not always guaranteed an escape.
Jumpers die eventually, however if the opposing fails to recognise which ship is jump capable and thus allow to continue returning to battle then that is the failure of the opposing side not the jump drive.
You should know in your enemies fleet has JDs and concentrate on killing them first.
It's because the OP is not good at that, that this thread even exists. Just a moan is all this is.
Ye. Sure.
I am in TX in every fight I can make it to. And I am there practically daily.
The amount of Turtles jumping in and out and the frequency with which they do it is too damn high. Restocking Cruisers that can dodge near-indefinitely from jumpships is rather standard, and I have seen caps suicide in their jump-out location more than once.And even if they do not botfeed, their x-thousand bots can never be countered by their 2 minutes of disappearance.
Jumpers do not die eventually.
They are invulnerable if you cannot kill them in a uncloak-30-second-2-BS-counterattack.
Which is no fun at all.
The mechanic is broken.
The players that use it in that way are exploiting on a broken mechanism.
They ruin the fights for their own ego trips.
But as I said... I am confident it has been fixed and those who exploit it hardest will be the ones crying loudest. So... enjoy your broken gimmick while you have it. I'll enjoy the long time after it has been fixed because it always that way: something is broken. It gets discovered. It gets exploited to the max. It gets nerfed into hell and back. It's barely useable and disappears. Congratulations. We are getting there. ;D
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Thyrzul - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 01:17 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: After 2 minutes, you have another X-thousand bots in the fight on the other side. They get distributed and then the ship jumps again when running dry. Zero risk. Insta win. And a big ugly move
Please, log to TX fights to see what reality looks like.
And after two minutes you can't make an advantage out of one less opponent to shoot at? I've seen RNC- being organized and LoLNS- getting raped like it isn't a fight, but a massacre even before jumpdrives, don't tell me these bad jumpdrives are the only factor in how TX fights turn out the same way every time. Don't tell me that if one side uses them, the other side can't. Since it's done in Texas, LNS would even have the advantage to return way faster than RNC, yet somehow I rather see the Liberty side complaining than the Rheinland side.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - black widow3 - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 01:49 PM)sindroms Wrote: Features making our mod unique are important.
Having them fall under the concept of Counter Play is also important.
Most of the time when a battleship starts charging their drive, it is physically impossible to quickly have everyone switch on him as the target. Just like CMs have a certain precentage of ability to catch CDs, the jumpdrive must leave at least some chance for the other side to kill the player doing so.
Especially if they keep doing so 15 times in a row.
My point is that in cap battle let's take the LN RM Scrums in TX as an example.
People who partake in the battles will do so regularly and will thus know which enemy capitals have jump drives.
So when a fight begins or jumper shows up in the battle, a fleet commander and redirect the capitals to focus their fire on the jump enabled capital ship. Rather than waiting for them to start charging their Jumpdrive before opening fire on them. In which case as you say it might be to late.
In battle it's always to eliminate the biggest threat before it becomes a problem later.
If you loose one or two caps in the process of switching targets to the jumper as soon as he/she appears then so be it. But at least you nullify them before they become a problem later, whether that be from jumping in and out or escaping at the last minute....
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Fluffyball - 12-16-2014
I think we miss one point here.
Jumping by drive kind of equals with jumping by JH/JG - at least for me, but it's more remote and it costs fuel. According to someone's (can't say who started) logic, ships which jumped through gates or holes should be dead PVP. And it takes a lot of time to jump, mind you.
GG if you can wait 10 minutes to jump and not being destroyed by bombers, other caps and so on.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - black widow3 - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 02:02 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:(12-16-2014, 01:28 PM)black widow3 Wrote: No it is not totally stupid, it's a great fail safe against gank fleets.
From the way you describe infinitely jumping bot factories just shows me you have no idea about jumping at all or the mechanics involved in it.
No one uses combat jumping to botfeed people that I have seen anyway.
It is used as a means of escape, I use it to escape when I am being ganked.
Having the ability to return to a fight does not make you invincible as you are not always guaranteed an escape.
Jumpers die eventually, however if the opposing fails to recognise which ship is jump capable and thus allow to continue returning to battle then that is the failure of the opposing side not the jump drive.
You should know in your enemies fleet has JDs and concentrate on killing them first.
It's because the OP is not good at that, that this thread even exists. Just a moan is all this is.
Ye. Sure.
I am in TX in every fight I can make it to. And I am there practically daily.
The amount of Turtles jumping in and out and the frequency with which they do it is too damn high. Restocking Cruisers that can dodge near-indefinitely from jumpships is rather standard, and I have seen caps suicide in their jump-out location more than once.And even if they do not botfeed, their x-thousand bots can never be countered by their 2 minutes of disappearance.
Jumpers do not die eventually.
They are invulnerable if you cannot kill them in a uncloak-30-second-2-BS-counterattack.
Which is no fun at all.
The mechanic is broken.
The players that use it in that way are exploiting on a broken mechanism.
They ruin the fights for their own ego trips.
But as I said... I am confident it has been fixed and those who exploit it hardest will be the ones crying loudest. So... enjoy your broken gimmick while you have it. I'll enjoy the long time after it has been fixed because it always that way: something is broken. It gets discovered. It gets exploited to the max. It gets nerfed into hell and back. It's barely useable and disappears. Congratulations. We are getting there. ;D
The more you nerf discovery the more you tombstone it! Don't forget that
Btw you liberty navies only hate jump drives and are crying about them because it is a piece of tech that stops you from ganking lone RM Caps versus loLN fleets. Which is the reason why people are crying about them here!
Rather than moaning about JDs why don't you LNS try JDs for yourself??
The Liberty Dread is more than capable of mounting a JD3 with enough space to hold fuel for a single flight.
Proof of this is my Jump Enabled Dunkirk HMS Illustrious.
It is mounted with a JD3, HA4 Armour, Shield and has 7 guns. 3 Cerb Turrets and 4 Primaries just enough fire power to kill any other battleship with 395 empty space for MOX.
A liberty dread with the same setup can be just as effective as the Kirk and Dread have the same stats.
So why not make jumping dreads and we can all put this thread to sleep.
Your hands are not tied here, you can do exactly what the RM are doing. You even have a Carrier you could use for this purpose also with more space meaning it carry more weaps.
Create a Jumping Liberty Dread and I will give you free coords for NY and TX so you can all join the fun.
You only need to think of ways to counter jumping turtles to shift the balance of power.
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Thyrzul - 12-16-2014
Never thought I'll say such, but BW kinda have a point, if JD caps are this much of a problem, they could just become priority targets, take them out first, and they'll won't come back. Also, let's not get back to the times when even fleeing from combat was considered PvP death, please.
Please!
Please!
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
The more people do not care logging any more because fighting each other is pointless, the more tombstones we get. And jumpdrives, stupid-cloaks, cap-spam and insta-orgies do exactly that: make people say "Nah, let's not even bother. Let's not log".
RE: Jumping out of combat... - Jack_Henderson - 12-16-2014
(12-16-2014, 02:46 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:Never thought I'll say such, but BW kinda have a point, if JD caps are this much of a problem, they could just become priority targets, take them out first, and they'll won't come back. Also, let's not get back to the times when even fleeing from combat was considered PvP death, please.
Please!
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Have you ever tried to kill a Jumper, Thyr?
For bombers it is completely impossible.
For 2 Cruisers, it is completely impossible.
For anything that is not a huge gankforce with at least 2 BS, it is impossible to kill it in the little time that you have before it is gone... just to return with 5k bots 2 min later.
How is that counter-able?
It's not.
After the jumper comes back for the first time, the other side has lost all its BS.
From then on, it is a pure massacre and you can basically log off, as a non-BS force can never hope to get the jumper down.
Go to TX. Log Liberty. See the silliness on every single raid.