(04-30-2015, 10:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Whilst I did enjoy pointing out BWs hypocrisy, it pains me to say that I actually sort of agree with him.

[Zoner Freeport Laws, which ultimately lead to] Zoner FR5s are bad and counter-productive to healthy gameplay.

Zoner FR5s contain far too much counter-productive power. Yes, it's good and all enforcing the faction right in response to justifiable RP, but can we really justify something that's negative to healthy server gameplay?

So we all know about the Zoner rephack against Order. I actually made this thread about it specifically, it generally details my gripe with Zoner FR5s.

Zoner bases are neutral and are systematically placed so that they can encourage activity in the regions of Sirius where they are placed. Omicron Delta? Almost every faction can dock on it and the base is also in the center of the system. Omicron Theta? Another base systematically placed to encourage activity. Omega-41? Yet again another Zoner base is systematically placed in that system to encourage activity. Same applies for Omega-3 too, the Zoner base in there gives easy access to the rest of the system for factions so that pews can be encouraged. The list goes on.

Freeport 11 in Omicron Delta is awesome for generating activity and interactions. All the big players in the Omicrons can dock there and jump straight into the action that may be present in the system. There was a reason why when Golanski, who was once the FP Admin of FP 11, removed the NFZ. The NFZ would've just been counter-productive to system activity. It was just a lot easier and a lot more fun for people to be able to base themselves off FP11, the risk was that sort of activity could easily be shut down by petty FR5s because of the base laws.

Jump forward a few months and Order, both indie and official, were rephacked red to Zoner bases. Oh boy, that sure had a really healthy impact on Order activity in Omicron Delta and Order activity in general...
Order 1.11:49:14

When Golly lost his FP11 admin privileges, he was replaced and the new guy brought the NFZ back in. Woop dee woo.

This is just one example of how Zoner FR5s can just shut down activity. The pirate examples being echoed through this thread are also good examples, though I feel it's more detrimental to groups that bring activity to the region rather than individuals.

Be honest Bretonian players: Would you really rather have no pirates in Omega-3 for you to interact with at all? Would you really want to remove their most viable means to quickly creating and generating activity? Personally I wouldn't, hence why I'm probably never going to report an instance of someone breaking these silly laws. I'd rather have something to shoot than targeting my opponent at an ooRP level by shutting him off from fun gameplay.

Ok this next point might sound horribly bias but please try to reason with me as it's actually a pretty good point. I'd still argue it even if I didn't lead, or was involved with, Core.
So The Core upset a Zoner about a month ago because that Zoner got too big for his boots and thought he could get away with it. As seen here it was reported to the CoF channel, which is fair enough, and it was even discussed a little. My HUGE gripe with this is that a Zoner FR5/Rephack would be immensely detrimental to The Core's activity. Whilst we would still be able to scrape activity in somewhere like Omicron Delta, we'd end up getting completely shut off from the Omegas. We'd virtually lose half of our ZoI as we greatly rely on Zoner bases so that we can contribute to Omega activity. This is a scarily large amount of power for a group of players to have; the ability to just be able to ooRPly shut down the activity of another faction.


This only covers the ooRP aspects of why Zoner FR5s are bad. RPly, imo I don't see how Zoners would be so willing to FR5 factions like The Order who could easily crap all over their day. The Order isn't the sort of faction you get to annoy and get off without consequences.

Secondly, Zoners are not unified by lore. Why is it that misbehavior at one Zoner base gets you hostile to all of them? Each base should be governed individually, as Zoners are generic, not governed as a whole. Even still, I'm still clueless why Zoners would care so much for restricting access to their bases and compromising their neutrality. It's like trying to enforce rules at Barrier Gate or something.


Before people try to point out my own hypocrisy with Junker bases, allow me to defend myself preemptively. Every system that has a Junker base, with the exception of Texas, Inverness and Puerto Rico, has a viable alternative base for other ID'd ships to dock on in the event they get FR5'd. Even in regards to those three aforementioned systems, Inverness and Puerto Rico aren't really activity hotspots. Even still there's a Rogue base in Humboldt and an Order base in Inverness for factions to dock on. In regards to Texas, you have Alcatraz for Rogues which is one jump away and a very short distance from the Texas JH and Milford in Penny which is also very close to the Texas JH. Basically an FR5 to Junker bases doesn't get in the way of activity.


In conclusion (and I'm sorry Zoner players but you are going to hate me for saying this) there's essentially a group of players who have power that is equivalent to deleting a factions base from a system or region and shutting them off from activity hotspots. That's just too much power, for anyone, to have. When a faction right crosses the line from being "a sensible inRP tool" to "a detrimental tool that harms server gameplay" then there's an issue. Black Widow echoes a small example of a much bigger problem.

(04-30-2015, 03:02 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

Lyth's wall of text adds a considerable amount of points to the already huge list of reasons regarding why Zoners shouldn't be a non-generic playable faction. At all.

(04-30-2015, 06:00 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: All FR5s are harmful for gameplay.

Quote:Factions that are supposed to be inRP at WAR with one another over resources are too afraid to actually role play that aspect of their faction out because of fear of getting FR5'd by the Houses. This is crippled RP, imo.

(04-30-2015, 06:00 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: All FR5s are harmful for gameplay.
They are (ab?)used as oorp powertools against other player factions because one player has the possibility to wreck a faction.

This should not be about Zoner FR5s.
It should be about FR5 in general.

There is no difference whether Order gets FR5ed from Delta, or Core from wherever, or IC from Rheinland, or IND from Liberty, or just indy Smuggler X from lawful bases Y.

In all the cases, the effects are detrimental to gameplay.

It's a little ironic that most people say "gameplay consequences", but when they feel the impact themselves, they often see the destructive potential on an oorp/gameplay-wise basis.

On the other side, Zoners are one of the few factions that NEED some kind of power to fight back. No one likes to be a faction that everybody with a big ego thinks he can trample on without repercussions. Their strategic base positioning is their only weapon to enforce the lore "we are neutral, so treat us as neutral". People that play against Zoners should expect a reaction. As Zoners are barred from reacting like everybody else (shooting each other until it becomes boring, then returning to old stance), attackers basically ask for this fr5 reaction.

Anyway, my main point. FR5s are bad for gameplay in general.
The concept should be abandoned and replaced with some other meaningful Faction Right.

Jack