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Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Printable Version

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Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - jammi - 05-13-2015

A discussion popped up in the Bowex thread earlier on where we were bemoaning the stereotypes that had been applied to all the various Houses by the Discovery playerbase, with the basis for many of them having never even existed in the original game. A lot of people's perceptions of the Houses are based on material that simply... doesn't exist.

After a while we got to the point of Kusari, which prior to the republican coup was widely roleplayed as a pseudo-feudal, isolationist/racist state with a weak government that existed primarily to service a strong/powerful Emperor (whose dynasty had been appointed during a Samura led coup 500 years previously). Well, that all checks out, right?

Not so much, it transpires. I suddenly realised that while playing through the single player campaign I could not recall a single mention of an Emperor in Kusari. So I fired up FLDev and went looking through the infocards for vanilla (helpfully available due to the way Discovery installs on top of a clean copy). What I found was equal parts surprising and bemusing.

Here are the sum total of all the results that apply to Kusari for the word 'Emperor':

IDS 066564 (Kusari gunboat).
In an effort to better enforce the will of the Emperor, the Imperial Navy developed this ship. In large numbers they are particularly devastating.

IDS 133383 (Ainu Depot rumour).
The Golden Chrysanthemums believe that they have the next emperor -- excuse me, empress of Kusari back in a corner of the living deck in the form of a seven-year-old Kyushu girl. They're teaching her everything she needs to know to run the country. Good luck

That is it. Everything to do with Emperors - the rest of the references pertain to Rheinland and their old Imperial government prior to the 80 Years War. Even more interestingly, I believe the infocard for the Kusari gunboat wasn't even included in the game, and could only be found by using infocard reader programs like FLDev.

So, that leaves one extremely weak implication for there actually being an Emperor, in that the Chrysanthemums wanted to impose one of their own. But that could just as easily be taken as proof of their desire to create some kind of mental matriarchy, not that there is an existing Emperor.

What exactly was the situation then, and what's the deal with the Blood Dragons? Their sole purpose is trying to kill off the Samura-influenced Imperial dynasty, right? Again, not so much. During the campaign, the head of state for Kusari was referred to as the Shogun - Shogun Edo specifically - who was of equal stature to the President/Queen/Chancellor of the other Houses. Politicians of planets and systems were prefects or governors (perhaps interchangable titles?), including such notables as Tekagi an Hakkera.

When you search for the term 'Shogun', things get a lot more interesting. First up, here are all of the vanilla story-based news articles that pertain to Kusari and appear at intervals through the campaign. They demonstrate how the Shogun is the principal actor in Kusari, equivalent to his counterpart heads of state in the other Houses:


Bit of a slog if you read through all that, but it's interesting fluff and provides context. Plus it underlines what I'm angling at here: through a crisis that threatens the very existence of Kusari as a House, an Emperor isn't mentioned once. Not in a position of power, not as a vestigial/ceremonial role. All statements and diplomacy are conducted by the Shogun and the Kusari government. So, in order to get to the root of this, we're likely going to have to look a bit further back in time. Here's the Blood Dragon infocard that delves into the Samura coup that resulted in the Dragons' formation:


So, looking at this, Samura directly caused the previous Shogun (not Emperor) to commit suicide, usurping his government. They then replaced it with a "Samura-controlled Kusari government", with again no mention of an Emperor. To really drive this point home, a few more infocards can be found that refer to Kusari's government and which hold wider implications about the name of the House as a whole. See below:


So this again reinforces the point that Kusari is led by a Shogun and perhaps might have then been more appropriately known as the Kusari Shogunate. However! There are a few references that undermine this hypothesis, such as the original infocard for Shinjuku Station:


There are a few other infocards which use similar phraseology. I'm inclined to chalk this up to Digital Anvil sloppiness, given the way Empire and Shogunate seem to be used interchangeably between infocards and rumours. In any case, the above seems to imply that the House is possibly an Empire, but is definitely led by a Shogun with no mention of an Emperor.

So, what's the take-away from this? Not very much, honestly. It seems that a great deal of roleplay stretched across a great many years was based on the shakiest of implications as opposed to actual lore. Alternately, it could be argued that the reason there is no Emperor is because the Shogun practically fills exactly the same purpose, and the game's developers simply wanted to give the role a more "traditionally ethnic" sounding title. In any case, there's no evidence whatsoever to support whether the position of Shogun was inherited, elected or other.

I imagine this might be seen as uh, upsetting from certain quarters. I'm not proposing any action or alterations anyway, I just found all this highly fascinating. Basically the idea that memes generated entirely by the players themselves went on to massively drive mod-developed storylines. Lets hear what you all think on this controversial subject! Discuss!

And be sure to join me next week when I explain where Chancellor Niemann went after the campaign ended, and why he'd never been seen in the same room as Queen Carina! And remember, H Fuel can't melt the Honshu defence fleet!


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Char Aznable - 05-13-2015

I explained in Bowex chat already this probably is the case. The emperor worked more as a figurehead, a legitimization for the reign of the Shogun and his Vassals, the local Gouverners (See lord Hakkeera). After the nomad war kusari essentially seems to have been restructurated, to more resemble Japan during the Meiji-Period, with the emperor having actual power over Kusari. Samura also probably never instated an Emperor, it most likely installed a Shogun instead of the former one (the actual reason for the dragons wanting to install a Shogun rather than an emperor).


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - TheSauron - 05-13-2015

A week? You want us to wait a WHOLE WEEK?!

Back to the point, that's kinda... suprising. I'm not really sure what to think about Kusari now, not really mentioning any Kusarian RP.



RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Fluffyball - 05-13-2015

Actually it might be complicated. As we can read in vanillia Blood Dragons' description, they fight for "restoration of their Imperial line". This could mean that both Emperor and Shogun are present in the government, with predominant role of the Shogun. Like in Edo Period of Japan, under Tokugawa Bakufu.

Figure of Emperor could be just symbolic, like in very turbulent times from Onin War till the Meiji Restoration.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - jammi - 05-13-2015

I dunno. The term Imperial seems to be used to refer to the Shogun and his personal staff. For example:

IDS 015190
Governor Tekagi is meeting with Chancellor Niemann under the protection of the Shogun’s own Imperial Guard, who accompanied him through the blockade and to the Rheinland capitol of New Berlin. The Governor was greeted with unusual warmth by the Rheinland Chancellor, who was himself surrounded by his own well-armed bodyguards. The two reportedly are going to meet privately to discuss the peace settlement and the safe release of the Kusari hostages. Today, all eyes are on Rheinland.

IDS 015218
The Kusari people are in mourning today for one of the few great men of our time: Governor Yoshinobu Tekagi. Upon hearing of his murder by armed assassins, Shogun Edo was enraged and shouted for vengeance. An Imperial taskforce has been called in to investigate what is left of the Governor's retreat.

IDS 393691
Rumors about The Order are starting to circulate again. I hear the Shogun has increased the resources devoted to investigating them and doubled the number of Imperial Guards around him and Governor Tekagi. The strange thing is, I haven’t heard of The Order operating anywhere near Kusari, let alone threatening the government. Still, they're probably right to be cautious now that things will be settling down again.

I'd suggest that this lends credence to my idea that DA was being lazy and just using the Shogun as a "Japanese sounding" word for Emperor. Given that the figure the Dragons' served under was explicitly named as a shogun, I'd say that also very strongly implies the post is inherited, so thank you for pointing that out.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Fluffyball - 05-13-2015

Quote:(...) Shogun Edo was enraged and shouted for vengeance. An Imperial taskforce has been called in to investigate what is left of the Governor's retreat.

After reading a lot about history of Japan, I can't fend off the feeling they were somehow... connected with each other (yaoi alert, ugh!)



As for Shogun and Emperor, just look carefully onto Tokugawa Shogunate. The actual head of the state wasn't emperor, but main general - shogun. Emperor might be existant in Kusari, but he could be pushed into position that the figure is purely marginal.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - jammi - 05-13-2015

(05-13-2015, 08:39 PM)Fluffyball Wrote:
Quote:(...) Shogun Edo was enraged and shouted for vengeance. An Imperial taskforce has been called in to investigate what is left of the Governor's retreat.

After reading a lot about history of Japan, I can't fend off the feeling they were somehow... connected with each other (yaoi alert, ugh!)

The strong implication is that by that point Shogun Edo was also a Nomad. Tekagi was already infected through his meeting with Niemmen, and got the Shogun during his debriefing about the diplomatic meeting. He was actually due to meet with Jacobi just after that, but Trent and the Blood Dragons kill him in order to grab the Proteus Tome before he can depart.

The implication, again, was that Tekagi was being used as an infiltration vector due to his ability as a diplomat to set up high level meetings with other dignitaries. When Tekagi got burned and the Donau had already been toasted in the introduction, the infected military junta in Liberty had to take more direct measures (coup) in order to secure Jacobi. Trent, again, busts this up.

You can actually pick up an awful lot of clever details from the campaign news articles. Some quite dark details too. For example, the Foreign Minister of Bretonia (Lord Quigley) is very strongly implied to be infected, and is murdered by an Order operative before he can get Carina. The operative then commits suicide before he can be interrogated in Liberty (probably fearing Nomad influence in the LSF).

Well, that's one possibility, anyway. On second thoughts, Ozi does say that no-one had ever faced a Nomad and survived just before he goes and Rambos The Arch. The other option was that it was a Nomad agent, who killed Quigley in order to force Queen Carina to take his place at a diplomatic summit on Curacao that Niemman would be attending. For obvious reasons.

But on topic, the more I read, the more I feel that Shogun was just being used as lazy shorthand for the role that occupied the head of Kusari's Imperial state. I doubt there was an Emperor - ceremonial or otherwise - because there's pretty much nothing to indicate so.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Miaou - 05-13-2015

I see it more of a disconnect to old-world tradition and changing of word's meaning. Over time, words change. Perhaps in the future, Shogun was used more and more to mean "leader" or "ruler" and "emperor" was just another lesser-used title.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - WesternPeregrine - 05-13-2015

Regarding the matter if Kusari is (was) an Empire, or a Shogunate: While a Shogunate can be a form of government (like a military junta, or a dicatorship), it is not a form of State. Therefore, Kusari for all purposes was an Empire.

On the matter of who is the boss: This question has been raised on the development channel of Kusari, on matters relating to KNF and Samura, and on the concept of the Exiles.

We were faced with the same gaps related as to the "original" form of state that Kusari took after planetfall. There is not direct lore written regarding anything before the Sakura coup, other than the origins and "player written lore" of Samura and Kishiro.

It also struck me as odd that, being an empire, the deposed element of the Dragons was a Shogun, and it's not clear if this Shogun held power on his own, or under the legitimacy of a puppet emperor in the background. Same as the vanilla Shogun Edo that you have researched.

There is also very little lore available about the rest of the political systems of the Settlement Regime, the Hideyoshi Shogunate, or the post Sakura/Vanilla government, other than the mention of the Prefects/Governors. No mentions of nobility, ministers or territorial divisions, other than the faint allusion to the current Prefectural System.

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Of course, such gaps have left plenty of space for everyone to imagine how the past shaped the present, and added their own flavor. Imperials have built an image of a despotic Emperor, one that takes to the battlefield like some crusader king. Many Dragon players roleplay old nobility families disgraced by the Sakura coup, wishing to recover their "Planet sized titles" of ownership alongside to the return of a Shogun (or Shoguns?, every incarnation is a new Shogun family).

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Devs of old never bothered to reshape the old storyline of Kusari, to fill up those continuity gaps. I can't say it is a bad thing, but probably it was the wisest choice, if it was ever pondered.


RE: Controversial: Kusari never had an Emperor - Highland Laddie - 05-13-2015

Think of current Kusari politics as kinda like the movie "The Last Samurai" with the Blood Dragons being the rebel Samurai, basically. Tongue

What Char already said.