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+--- Thread: Metagaming via players online system tab (/showthread.php?tid=146052)
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Metagaming via players online system tab - Ihtyander - 12-06-2016
My question is straithforward. Is a tab where are listed online players and their system position RP nature or oorp nature ?
Several situation
1. I see on activity tab familiar player in system nearby to area of my RP. I relog my other ship and hurry to encounter him.
Is this in its basic metagaming?
1a I am bounty hunter looking when my prey is going to log in
1b I am policeman who want to stop known smuggler.
1c i need that ship for my RP as we established connections earlier
1d i am pirate and want to snatch his transport or tax him
I am completely sure that ALL uses this information for those activities, but my question is - is this metagame, or some allowed minimum of info where are the players to interact with. Imagine contrary situation that we are completely blind and unaware of where are other people. any kind of interaction in so vast universe would be pure coincidence.
Now second example
2. I am policeman in all 4 houses (have police ships) . One smuggler escape me in one house, but i relog on other house police ship to try to ambush him again. Do i metagame? I use my knowledge from general activity tab, not cause one my ship suddenly `told` my other ship where is offender going.
2a I am pirate and do the same as 2. to some transport.
Variation on both - is metagaming to multiple tax some poor tranport by reloging on pirates on its tranport path? OR catch pirate as policeman and fine him wherever he goes.
I am not sure where to draw boundary what is healthy RP what is jerking around. I suppose that if you pirate someone once, would be at least poor RP to log on other pirate and pirate him again on same route...
I would appreciate some constructive councels on this.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - ger3mita - 12-06-2016
(06-08-2016, 11:47 PM)Igiss Wrote: - Metagaming: When game information outside of what is available in a game is used to give a player an advantage in-game.
Player list is ingame information - not metagaming.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Laura C. - 12-06-2016
Metagaming is using information which your character does not have access to. So technically, using player list is metagaming because there is no such thing inRP.
However, situation is little more complicated. In some situations, using it is okay and tolerated when it leads to interactions. For example if there is raid coming up, it is okay to call defenders in the emergency skype chat when you see raiding party in the player list. Reason is that raiding party -wants- defenders, because if there are no defenders, then raid is waste of time because its goal is to have fight and fun.
So all examples in the OP are technically metagaming, but some of them fine and some not. Though like you said, people do it all the time even in bad form.
This is fine
Quote:1c i need that ship for my RP as we established connections earlier
Everything else is not. And examples under point 2 are very bad, that´s basically harrasing and you will likely be sanctioned for it sooner or later.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - sindroms - 12-06-2016
Everything is matagaming if you want to be truly technical about it as any choice your character makes is based on your oorp decisions. If reported, however, it all comes down to context and the intent behind the actions that were reported as metagaming.
At this point in time using the playerlist, due to its presence for all players, has not been viewed as metagaming by the server rules, but in many cases might be considered as unsportsmanlike behavior.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Ihtyander - 12-06-2016
So in generall to conclude it - if i choose to harass one poor player all day along via player online tab, i am not techically metagamer in mean of braking server rules, but i can call myself and be called by others as complete RP ass`ole. Ok, i figured it.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Officially_that_Guy - 12-06-2016
Quote:1a I am bounty hunter looking when my prey is going to log inMetagaming, as you are using information your inRP character should really not have. You relog to him to put the other player at a major disadvantage. Either you are on your...trader? OR on your police ship. If you log your police ship just because of the player list, thats meta gaming (the console gave me a nice warning about that at some point)
1b I am policeman who want to stop known smuggler.
1d i am pirate and want to snatch his transport or tax him
Quote:1c i need that ship for my RP as we established connections earlierNot metagaming, as nobody suffers from any disadvantage if I understood your example correctly. We are talking about "contract" RP or smth similar, right?
As for the double-taxing: It's a douchebag move, first of all, you are actively TRYING to harm the other player, so yet again that's metagaming, as your actions do not reflect sound RP. You are on one pirate, you do not log another pirate to hit the same target again. Just think.
You may RP a pirate, but keep in mind there are people trying to enjoy the game behind that avatar. Be reasonable.
(12-06-2016, 11:49 AM)Ihtyander Wrote: So in generall to conclude it - if i choose to harass one poor player all day along via player online tab, i am not techically metagamer in mean of braking server rules, but i can call myself and be called by others as complete RP ass`ole. Ok, i figured it.
(12-06-2016, 11:28 AM)sindroms Wrote: If reported, however, it all comes down to context and the intent behind the actions that were reported as metagaming.
Server Rules Wrote:1.2 Flaming, insulting, trolling and harassing other players
1.5 Meta/powergaming
That combination would probably get you hammered. You are "not-quite metagaming" to harrass a single person, so that might even add this line:
Server Rules Wrote:-- Administrators are obliged:
To develop and safeguard the health of the Discovery Freelancer community, official server, and forums.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Sombs - 12-06-2016
Quote:My question is straithforward. Is a tab where are listed online players and their system position RP nature or oorp nature ?
OoRP. This here is a very good example on how to not do it: Link
Quote:Several situation
1. I see on activity tab familiar player in system nearby to area of my RP. I relog my other ship and hurry to encounter him.
Is this in its basic metagaming?
Kind of, but tolerated. You are looking for possible activity and encounters. You could set yourself the limitation to not use it, but everyone else and their mother will use it. While I don't like it, I use it myself, for example, to see when people are in the Nomicrons. RP-wise, the nomads have a different sense for detection of humans, as they can, lore-wise, also detect cloaked vessels. A very well played example of how you show that in an adequate roleplay behavior was shown here, for example: Link
The Wild player, a known infectee (Frank) had a few hours ago an encounter with my ship and we had a very interesting talk about the special stance the Apahanta has to the Nomads and Mankind. Later, the Apahanta entered the Omicron Major system, and of course the Nomads got awareness of it, as they are telepathic beings that will know when someone enters their voids - that's mostly regulated for Omicron Iota, Major and Psi, where the Nomads are the ones that rule over the systems. I'd say, that's basically the only exception for this kind of metagame-awareness, at least when it comes to strangers.
The thing is, the player list shows you only so much. You see SOMEONE is SOMEWHERE and you can GUESS what kind of ship it is according to the rank or you already know the guy - that, however, is ooRP-knowledge. You do not know if the person is docked to a station, or if the person is cloaked.
RP-wise, the golden rule is:
You only are aware of something you or your RP-comrades see.
EDIT: And you can hear cloaked ships within a range of 9k. You don't know who that ship is, though, even when you can guess it from the player list.
That means, you either see players on your scanner, or you get the inRP-info from another player that is aware of the third player being somewhere. Police characters have a little advantage here, as they have, inRP, the TLAGSNET - the Trade Lane and Gate Surveillance Network (or whatever that might stand for). Police characters can use that command to become awareness of every single ship using a trade lane in their respective house region. That little command is overpowered, in my eyes, however, it shows not only the ships that use trade lanes in the system you are in, but also the ships using trade lanes in other systems of your house, meaning you can sit at Manhattan and watch people using lanes in Colorado, California, Texas and the libertonian lanes in the independent worlds. Also, you can use the TLAGSNET to scan the ships, so you get a list of the ships equipment and cargo. No matter if the ship is cloaked or not. That's why I, for example, could not use the trade lanes with my cloaked Mako, as police characters could see there is a ship out there equipped with Core Battleship Turrets. You also get the name of the ship.
Quote:1a I am bounty hunter looking when my prey is going to log in
Adequate would be to team up with house police to become inRP aware of where shady people are. However, the player count isn't that high and there are only rare chances you find a police officer that is willing to team up with you, so, yes, people use the player list here to "stumble" across bountied people. You shouldn't overdo it with this, though, and don't chase people you never saw over multiple systems or log specifically from one ship to another to be there instantly. That's usually poor show and people will definitely take this as a reason to launch a shitstorm.
Quote:1b I am policeman who want to stop known smuggler.
TLAGSNET.
Quote:1c i need that ship for my RP as we established connections earlier
That depends where the ship is. If it's in a remote system and you actively search for it, it's kinda cheesy. I once had a situation where Auxesia claimed to have awareness of a big energy source, which caused them to chase my cloaked Mako from Coronado over Cortez over California to Ontario, always with one system distance between me and them. I wasn't very happy to see that, as I was aware of them following me, ooRP, watching the player list, and randomly they found me at the Junker base in Ontario. I'd say that's a bit cheesy, especially since my ship was cloaked the entire time - that's something you can't see via player list.
Quote:1d i am pirate and want to snatch his transport or tax him
Same here as with the Bounty Hunter: You could team up with a Lane Hacker to have one with access to TLAGSNET. However, Lane Hackers are usually rare, especially their indies. I'd say when it comes to hunt down transports in Liberty and the area around it, it's not all too obvious, as some systems are just well visited by traders who bring ore from A to B. Pirating in remote systems however is a bit... meh. It gives you the feeling of blatant and obvious metagaming. Leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.
Quote:I am completely sure that ALL uses this information for those activities, but my question is - is this metagame, or some allowed minimum of info where are the players to interact with. Imagine contrary situation that we are completely blind and unaware of where are other people. any kind of interaction in so vast universe would be pure coincidence.
I'm a fan of completely getting rid of the player list, both ingame and the forum or any third party tool. That would make police chars way more useful, as they usually have the worst of a houses IDs, as the military can use capitals and the intelligence services can leave the ZoI to do fun stuff.
Quote:Now second example
2. I am policeman in all 4 houses (have police ships) . One smuggler escape me in one house, but i relog on other house police ship to try to ambush him again. Do i metagame? I use my knowledge from general activity tab, not cause one my ship suddenly `told` my other ship where is offender going.
Blatant metagame. This will surely cause a sanction, as that happens from time to time. It's a game, and if you lose on that one character, you simply should be able to take it and live with it. You can't always be the winner.
Quote:2a I am pirate and do the same as 2. to some transport.
Don't do it. Same as above.
Quote:Variation on both - is metagaming to multiple tax some poor tranport by reloging on pirates on its tranport path? OR catch pirate as policeman and fine him wherever he goes.
That's even worse and never should be done. Taxing the same people multiple times is kind of a shitty move, as it is clearly targetting one and the same person. Do not do it. Another golden rule here for server behavior: If you want to cause harm, don't harm always the same people. You should encounter all kind of people to have a bit more of diversity and entertainment.
Quote:I am not sure where to draw boundary what is healthy RP what is jerking around. I suppose that if you pirate someone once, would be at least poor RP to log on other pirate and pirate him again on same route...
Yes. Don't do it.
Quote:I would appreciate some constructive councels on this.
I hope this was constructive enough.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - sindroms - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 11:49 AM)Ihtyander Wrote: So in generall to conclude it - if i choose to harass one poor player all day along via player online tab, i am not techically metagamer in mean of braking server rules, but i can call myself and be called by others as complete RP ass`ole. Ok, i figured it.
If you do that and the player reports you for it, we will sort your ships by value and delete a few of them to make the lesson stick.
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Kauket - 12-06-2016
Sombra, don't forget that cloaks make sounds. They're not a ticket to eternal hidey-ness. Also we just wanted to RP with you :{
But yeah, the only time using the player list is acceptable is when you're a Nomad doing nomad stuff in the Omicrons. Afterall, mindhive.
Another important thing to keep in mind is to think about what would it be like in their situation?
"Is it really worth doing this again? Would it be annoying them? Is it fair?"
RE: Metagaming via players online system tab - Sombs - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 01:30 PM)Auzari Wrote: Sombra, don't forget that cloaks make sounds. They're not a ticket to eternal hidey-ness. Also we just wanted to RP with you :{
Yeah, that's all good and the encounter wasn't really bad at all, but, you know, following people over multiple systems. Detecting cloaked ships that are beyond the 9k distance. I don't mind the encounter at all, though. c:
