(08-26-2017, 11:18 PM)Skyelius Wrote: Hello everyone,

I believe that as a veteran Corsair and the oldest surviving member of the Brotherhood, I must share my input/thoughts.

I really like the Murmillo; it is very good. Sometimes when a good thing is replaced, the replacement does not perform as well for some time.

However, I remember that Igiss arbitrarily decided to give Corsairs access to the Order Osiris (probably the greatest vanilla capital ship), along with establishing the Corsair-Order alliance. It is a decision that served the Corsairs well for a time, and has resulted in the Murmillo, to "keep in line with tradition". However, I dare say that was done out of "necessity", besides creative freedom.

Regardless, I think that a ship like this would best fit as a replacement for the Murmillo. It is also very very important to remember that Corsair technology is enhanced by access to unique alien technology which resulted in antimatter advancements, but its Sirian technology derivative is actually Rheinland technology (they became the Corsairs and set out to space after seizing the RNC-Schiller).

The Osiris (and hence, the Murmillo) is fundamentally based on experimental Liberty technology, which is very far away from the ideal concept.

Now, it would be my respectful and humble request that Corsair capital ships start showing their Rheinland heritage, but in the absence of a truly exquisite "Rheinlandic" Corsair shipline, which would be truer to the only lore written in stone, this vessel does the trick.

Also, I do not want to offend the individual or group that worked on the Legate, but that model is of very poor quality. I'd be fine with Mr. Swallow's model (once updated) replacing either the Murmillo or the Legate, though I'd lean towards it replacing the Murmillo (both ships are of thin profile - somewhat).

This is because the opportunity to have a Rheinlandic Corsair Heavy Battleship to replace the poor Legate is worth the wait.

-Sky

Crete Infocard Wrote:In 450 AS, that insular world changed. An exploratory expedition headed by Franz Schulman -- financed by Daumann and the Rheinland government -- stumbled into the system while mapping the far reaches of the Walker Nebula. The local inhabitants, sensing a historic opportunity, attacked the landing party en masse, killing all save Schulman, whom they took hostage to gain control of the mother ship Schiller in orbit above the planet.
....
The Corsairs began attacking unprotected outposts and ships, plundering whatever supplies and equipment they could lay their hands on, before escaping through one of their secret Jump Holes. The systematic expansion of the Houses into the Omega Border Worlds further fueled the Corsairs, dramatically increasing the quantity and variety of accessible goods. This in turn allowed them to build stronger ships and weapons.

Crete Infocard Wrote:In 450 AS, that insular world changed. An exploratory expedition headed by Franz Schulman -- financed by Daumann and the Rheinland government -- stumbled into the system while mapping the far reaches of the Walker Nebula. The local inhabitants, sensing a historic opportunity, attacked the landing party en masse, killing all save Schulman, whom they took hostage to gain control of the mother ship Schiller in orbit above the planet.
....
The Corsairs began attacking unprotected outposts and ships, plundering whatever supplies and equipment they could lay their hands on, before escaping through one of their secret Jump Holes. The systematic expansion of the Houses into the Omega Border Worlds further fueled the Corsairs, dramatically increasing the quantity and variety of accessible goods. This in turn allowed them to build stronger ships and weapons.

(08-26-2017, 11:46 PM)JorgeRyan Wrote: From this, it's fairly easy to conclude that the Corsairs first ships incorporated Rheinland technology in their construction. Additionally to this point, I remember reading that a Corsair specific engine would be based off of the Rheinland Mox Engine in its trail effect, which if true, would further solidify the roots of Corsair tech in Rheinland.

Quote:I'm not sure were the points about nomad tech came from, as far as I'm aware it's always been a shoot first, don't bother with questions after policy.

(08-26-2017, 11:54 PM)Wesker Wrote:

Crete Infocard Wrote:In 450 AS, that insular world changed. An exploratory expedition headed by Franz Schulman -- financed by Daumann and the Rheinland government -- stumbled into the system while mapping the far reaches of the Walker Nebula. The local inhabitants, sensing a historic opportunity, attacked the landing party en masse, killing all save Schulman, whom they took hostage to gain control of the mother ship Schiller in orbit above the planet.
....
The Corsairs began attacking unprotected outposts and ships, plundering whatever supplies and equipment they could lay their hands on, before escaping through one of their secret Jump Holes. The systematic expansion of the Houses into the Omega Border Worlds further fueled the Corsairs, dramatically increasing the quantity and variety of accessible goods. This in turn allowed them to build stronger ships and weapons.

Where did you find this? I want to read the whole thing.

(08-26-2017, 11:46 PM)JorgeRyan Wrote: From this, it's fairly easy to conclude that the Corsairs first ships incorporated Rheinland technology in their construction. Additionally to this point, I remember reading that a Corsair specific engine would be based off of the Rheinland Mox Engine in its trail effect, which if true, would further solidify the roots of Corsair tech in Rheinland.

I never read anywhere that the Corsair engines would be using the Rheinland MOX trail effect, seriously I need to see where all this is listed.

(08-27-2017, 12:42 AM)Durandal Wrote: Dude.. this is literally from Crete's infocard, go check it on the navmap. As for the nomad tech stuff, I'd assume Sky would know better than you or I about that, as a TBH member.

Crete infocard Wrote:Once they had secured the ship and all of its technologies, including the ship database with a full record of the history of Rheinland and the other four houses, they were outraged. No attempt had ever been made to locate the Hispania or its survivors. Suspicion that the other houses were behind the sabotage of the Hispania turned into hatred, and with a renewed determination, the sons and daughters of Crete took to the stars again. Within 50 years, they designed ships and technologies that would allow them to strike at the unsuspecting houses, using Crete's abundant mineral resources to rapidly build a fleet of small raiding ships.

Crete Infocard Wrote:Within 50 years, they designed ships and technologies that would allow them to strike at the unsuspecting houses, using Crete's abundant mineral resources to rapidly build a fleet of small raiding ships.

(08-27-2017, 01:41 AM)Wesker Wrote: ...the basis of "I know better because I'm a member".
By the way:

(08-27-2017, 03:51 AM)Skyelius Wrote: 2) @Wesker - It's obvious that neither me nor anyone that doesn't mingle with you intimately would respond well to an attempt to ridicule a serious argument with memes. If your buddies allow you to do that - fine, but it's important to know what lines to cross in a public forum. Since you seem to be really wanting to go through this argument "on a serious tone", then here it is.

Quote:Topic 1: The Outcast-Nomad "connection". I don't want to unearth too much of the past of Discovery, since some things are better left in oblivion. However, and not mentioning old names, the connection between the Nomads and the Outcasts was added because a circle of friends wanted to team their factions up. It is plausible that the Nomads, being so insidious, would take advantage of people that want to give themselves freely to them, but in everything that is original, the Nomads did not share any of their technology, nor did they want the humans to gain access to Daam K'Vosh technology. In the game, Liberty ships had Nomad technology because the pilots were Nomads - in human bodies (Nomad ships are "grown" bodies as well). They do not grant "special" technology to Outcasts, and in that sense, the Corsairs would have access to much more ancient knowledge than Outcasts, seeing as the Omicron Gamma system was likely a hub of activity and an important Daam K'Vosh world considering the very high concentration of remnants of their civilization in Omicron Gamma.

Crete infocard Wrote:The final chapter began in the sixth century AS, when an enterprising, well-armed Liberty freelancer named Jim Bown made his way to Omicron Gamma. He brought various Consumer Goods and Food to trade, but the Corsairs could offer little but Artifacts. A year later, he returned. Those trinkets were all the rage with the elite of Manhattan. He saw a great business opportunity if they could set up a viable trade route to Liberty. The Corsairs were on their way. They grew rapidly in size and sophistication as they built up the Artifact trade.

The primary smuggling route goes north to Sigma-19, where Artifacts are traded with the Hogosha onboard the Hawaii. They have also opened up a route into Rheinland via the Yanagi Junker base in Sigma-13. In the west the Corsairs invaded Bretonia in order to reach the Junker Trafalgar base in New London.

Quote:Topic 2: Hispanian technology. "Positron" is an antimatter particle (an anti-electron). In vanilla, both Corsairs and Outcasts had the most powerful positron shields available to them. They evidently used insight from the study of Daam K'Vosh relics to develop such advanced equipment. However, the Outcasts did not develop a shipline of their own. They fell into contact with the Zoners and other explorers, which they made part of their Cardamine trade, which gave them access to standard Sirius technology (Sirius technology is the combination of what the humans had when they came, with developments based on knowledge gained from the Valhalla-1 Daam K'Vosh library found in Planet Manhattan). The Corsairs certainly did not "use Nomad technology". The Corsairs and Outcasts both have access to Sirius (Human + Daam K'Vosh) technology, plus additional insight into Daam K'Vosh technology from remnants of their civilization that other human groups do not have access to. "Alien technology" is a big category that could include both Daam K'Vosh and Nomads. In the case of Hispania, they would have access to the former; Nomad technology is hard-coded into their biology; their tech is energetic biomatter (which can store a lot of energy, like a sponge, and release it).

Positron Sheild infocard Wrote:Positron shields emit a field of anti-electrons, which quickly atomise an incoming bolt before it manages to damage the hull. Because of this working principle, positron shields are less effective against bolts of photons or lasers.

Quote:Topic 3: Corsair technology. The Corsairs plundered the RNC-Schiller - together with an earlier generation of Rheinland technology. However, their first pirate strikes only used small ships for incursions into House territory. In Engineering design and development, you do not try to "reinvent the wheel", even less when you perform reverse-engineering; you use "what works up till today" to build what will do better tomorrow. Corsair technology would not be a clone of Rheinland technology, and would not necessarily look a lot alike modern Rheinland technology, but it would definitely have elements of a previous generation of Rheinland technology. More so in their capital ships than in their fighter craft, because the ship that they captured and studied was a capital ship. "Rheinland MOX" is also something that was added-in by one of the Discovery Developer generations at one time; originally, the only MOX that existed was Bretonian. As such, old Rheinland technology (which Corsairs acquired) would not be dependent on "Rheinland MOX" for propulsion either.

Crete's Infocard Wrote:Scratching out a living, the Corsairs managed a bleak existence for four centuries. Eventually they developed a strong self-identity, isolated from the rest of the Houses. In 450 AS, that insular world changed. An exploratory expedition headed by Franz Schulman -- financed by Daumann and the Rheinland government -- stumbled into the system while mapping the far reaches of the Walker Nebula. The local inhabitants, sensing a historic opportunity, attacked the landing party en masse, killing all save Schulman, whom they took hostage to gain control of the mother ship Schiller in orbit above the planet. Once they had secured the ship and all of its technologies, including the ship database with a full record of the history of Rheinland and the other four houses, they were outraged. No attempt had ever been made to locate the Hispania or its survivors. Suspicion that the other houses were behind the sabotage of the Hispania turned into hatred, and with a renewed determination, the sons and daughters of Crete took to the stars again. Within 50 years, they designed ships and technologies that would allow them to strike at the unsuspecting houses, using Crete's abundant mineral resources to rapidly build a fleet of small raiding ships.

Quote:On "knowing better" - it is not only present membership alone, of course not. It is a very long history and legacy gained over many years of not only membership, but close participation and yes, nerding about all things Freelancer related to the Corsairs - and one that Durandal, as a community veteran, is well aware of.

Also Wesker, you should also know better than to attempt to ridicule people that talk about a topic that you're not even inmersed in, but I hope that this experience benefits everyone in the long term. It is also not everyday that I am pushed to sharing what I've learned, but thanks for the opportunity.

-Sky

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: I decide to post 1 harmless meme for the first time in two years in reply to an argument (that isn't spelled out correctly in the initial post) and its immediately considered with maximum hostility as if I'm trying to "degrade you" or something.

Right.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: Knowledge left in Artifacts that they specifically exploited for monetary purposes, there's 0 tie between the nomads technology and that of the Corsairs in any infocard. There's even less development around it.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: As you can see the only mention of Alien remnants (in this case being artifacts as I pointed out) was them exploited for trade. The Outcasts may not have had any initial/vanilla ties with the nomads, but it was developed as the storyline progressed, and as such the Outcasts have much more Nomad integrated equipment that they rely on to survive against the Corsairs superior numbers.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: Except Rheinland Technology then is the same as it is now looks wise and performance wise by lore unless the Valkyrie and the Wraith are genuinely different models and ships inrp. Even in that case, they still have exactly the same looks/mounts/schematics aside from the fact that the wraith is more heavy. Looking at both sides of this claim I'm curious to know what aspects of Rheinland technology they applied to their own ships that also took them 50 years to put into play.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: After reading over again and again as well as consulting with 758932047580932759087239043 people I really have no idea if the Schiller was the RNC-Schiller we're both thinking of or not. Some are saying it wasn't, and looking back at the story for the RNC-Schiller it never made any adventures to the Omicron Gamma system. In fact after reading the quote over again it doesn't add up even if it WAS the RNC-Schiller.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: Why would Daumann and the Rheinland Government fund an exploration mission for one man with no mentioned military background to take an entire battleship out on his own with NO ONE to fall back on? It doesn't add up, so either it isn't the RNC-Schiller, or there's some other RNC-Schiller I'm missing here.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: I'm not ridiculing you, I'm responding because I've never heard of this before and it doesn't make sense to me. You're right, I haven't been inmersed in this topic since day 1, and that's why I'm reading over it now. Not to be rude or to do whatever negative thing you think it is that I'm doing.

(08-27-2017, 04:36 AM)Wesker Wrote: ...trying to understand this.