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POBs are people too... - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: POBs are people too... (/showthread.php?tid=163617)

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POBs are people too... - E X O D I T E - 08-11-2018

I'm sure that most of you know what this is about. For the unaware...
Herein is the reasoning behind THP taking the plunge.

The Rules Wrote:11. Any freelancer or BHG individual or group may only collect on a bounty which that person or group has issued, sponsored or funded (fully or partly) so long as it is open to others to collect. All non-generic factions may sponsor internal bounties that are only open to members of the player or NPC faction.

This is the rule that implies "Freelancer ID can post bounties". When the Forlorn| ID existed, it had a specific provision in it that said the character could not post bounties. Therefore, unless stated otherwise, any character can post a bounty.

There have been several POBs bountied, and the bounty paid out, over the years. Only when @Black Widow had the POB in Hudson nuked was there a big fuss raised, and that was over alleged OORP alliances. What does this mean?

It means that there is a precedent for POBs to be bountied. Indeed, in the cases I could observe, POBs were treated as player ships for all intents and purposes.

This brings me to the Freelancer ID.

Freelancer ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Freelancer, who:

Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect an friendly or allied ship.
Can fulfill any bounty and escort contracts, and may treat transports as combat targets when executing a bounty or escort contract against them.
Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo, except for the Pirate Train.
Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.

There you have it. Freelancer ID can attack to claim bounties, therefore it can declare a siege to claim a bounty on a POB. If you're going to take one thing away from this, it's...

Any freelancer or BHG individual or group may only collect on a bounty which that person or group has issued, sponsored or funded (fully or partly) so long as it is open to others to collect.

Can fulfill any bounty and escort contracts

Thank you for reading.
In regards to the base in question, it would have taken me thirty seconds to just bring my Ranseur and declare " base spotted, kill". In the case of THP| sieging, I was opening up my faction to diplomatic consequences, good or bad, from Crayter, Natio Octavarium, and everyone else with an interest in the region. This would not happen if it was me and my buds in lolseurs, simply because all RP consequences from that would be staring at the respawn screen at worst. Ask yourself, is stating an interpretation of the rules that says "Oh, the ID you are flying currently cannot do that" really going to matter when every player and their dog can comfortably have access to a Heavy BS and an ID that says "you can shoot everyone who isn't a Transport" with most of Sirius in its ZOI? For bonus "failing to contribute meaningfully to the RP environment" points, the player seeking to do a siege like I have described could hide behind a 2-post alt, post the bare minimum of RP then an attack declaration, then never use that account again.

/rules lawyering

RE: POBs are people too... - Vendetta - 08-11-2018

Did you talk to an admin about this?

RE: POBs are people too... - Lythrilux - 08-11-2018

IDs and the Rules need a big overhaul/looksie because from what I can tell there's a lot of unwritten rules in play right now, or IDs having gaping undefined loopholes.

RE: POBs are people too... - Freeroamer - 08-11-2018

I would tend to agree.

RE: POBs are people too... - Antonio - 08-11-2018

Bountying something yourself to invent an engagement line you don’t have by attempting to claim it is a blatant exploit. Say you’re right for half a second, say you could bounty anything yourself and claim it to give yourself an engagement line - that’d make the Freelancer ID a sirius-wide terrorist ID on top of what it already offers.

RE: POBs are people too... - SnakThree - 08-11-2018

(08-11-2018, 06:58 AM)Antonio Wrote: Bountying something yourself to invent an engagement line you don’t have by attempting to claim it is a blatant exploit. Say you’re right for half a second, say you could bounty anything yourself and claim it to give yourself an engagement line - that’d make the Freelancer ID a sirius-wide terrorist ID on top of what it already offers.

11. Any freelancer or BHG individual or group may only collect on a bounty which that person or group has issued, sponsored or funded (fully or partly) so long as it is open to others to collect. All non-generic factions may sponsor internal bounties that are only open to members of the player or NPC faction.

This exploit is enabled by the staff itself though.

RE: POBs are people too... - Settra - 08-11-2018

(08-11-2018, 06:58 AM)Antonio Wrote: Bountying something yourself to invent an engagement line you don’t have by attempting to claim it is a blatant exploit. Say you’re right for half a second, say you could bounty anything yourself and claim it to give yourself an engagement line - that’d make the Freelancer ID a sirius-wide terrorist ID on top of what it already offers.

I agree with this. What's done is done, but this should be prevented in the future.

RE: POBs are people too... - Kazinsal - 08-11-2018

(08-11-2018, 06:59 AM)SnakThree Wrote: This exploit is enabled by the staff itself though.

Is a bug in Freelancer that allows someone to exploit game mechanics an exploit that is enabled by Digital Anvil? Or is it an exploit caused by a bug that needs to be patched?

RE: POBs are people too... - E X O D I T E - 08-11-2018

(08-11-2018, 07:31 AM)Kazinsal Wrote:
(08-11-2018, 06:59 AM)SnakThree Wrote: This exploit is enabled by the staff itself though.

Is a bug in Freelancer that allows someone to exploit game mechanics an exploit that is enabled by Digital Anvil? Or is it an exploit caused by a bug that needs to be patched?

Perhaps a rule patch may ensue. An ID/bounty hire rule rework would shake things up around here for sure.

Perhaps @Karlotta may have some suggestions.

RE: POBs are people too... - LaWey - 08-11-2018

Can also somebody state this assumption PoB = ship in green? Or drop link with it, if it already was.

That nohow not obvious from current rules set. Maybe it obvious for old players, who played when there was different rule sets, rules about engagements and other crap. But from current rules absolutely not clear, why freelancers, or zoners couldnt just siege bases at their will.

[+]What says current rules:
For making statement about freelancer cannot attack PoBs just on their will, we need first make assumption, the PoBs = ships. Problem is, that nowhere not written in rules, and if even exist somewhere, hard to find by forum search.

And, i'm sorry, that really nohow not obvious, absolutely not in common sense after modern games, which can have different sets of rules and mechanichs for players installations and players ships.

Also, if we state PoBs = Ships, what about attack in self defence? Means that freelancers can just make screenshot with PoB shooting in it? Which class of ship PoB should be treated also. This topic was up multiple time, why not clarify it all one and once time?