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+--- Thread: Admin Notice: House Governments (/showthread.php?tid=188344)
Admin Notice: House Governments - aerelm - 05-29-2021
This has already been the established understanding around house governments, but to avoid any confusions and misunderstandings moving forward, the team has decided to put the "house government" definition and requirements in green writing. The following has been added to faction rules:
The staff will continue with the same hands-off approach as before when it comes to house government matters, and house gov reps are expected to settle any disputes and disagreements internally, but if a government fails or refuses to provide equal membership to every official lawful faction of their house, they will not be recognized as the official government entity by the staff until they do so.
(02-04-2007, 02:34 PM)Official Factions Rights & Responsibilities Wrote:House Governments are required to provide equal membership and rights to representatives of every official lawful faction of their house. While the in-roleplay government entity will only consist of reps of official lawful factions of the house, providing out-of-roleplay membership to unofficial reps and other individuals of their region is optional.
The staff will continue with the same hands-off approach as before when it comes to house government matters, and house gov reps are expected to settle any disputes and disagreements internally, but if a government fails or refuses to provide equal membership to every official lawful faction of their house, they will not be recognized as the official government entity by the staff until they do so.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Karlotta - 05-29-2021
You should really also include official unlawful factions, so it becomes less of an "us versus them" thing and people get the idea that you're supposed to respect the fun of the "other side" and collaborate with them oorp.
There should also be an official faction code of conduct that emphasizes this. And it should consist of other things than just making sure your indies stand down or die so that the official people can have more fun.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Saronsen - 05-31-2021
So you're saying we're forced to allow people who are known to leak in-progress votes, as well as in the past were known to alter the actual votes made by others (LibGov used to use google docs), and were voted to never be allowed to return by a majority vote, under threat of punishment? Did you think this through?
Disclaimer, I haven't been in LibGov for a couple months now.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - SquigglyKey - 06-01-2021
I often wonder why governments are so secretive, what’s the reasoning behind that?
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Kherty - 06-01-2021
A centralized entity that only takes in lawful official factions has always been a wrong choice. Laissez-faire is cool - but, here's my opinion.
Giving power to only a handful of person, and excluding the rest is plain ol' discrimination. I agree with Karlotta, however, ensuring that official members "have more fun" compared to the indies is rather meh.
These very persons will dictate how decisions are made, like Saronsen said; if true, majority vote should be the norm, and if the contrary was enforced, this should be concerning.
Moreover, if governments are so secretive like SquigglyKey said, this is also, very much concerning, because this is technically proof that they're doing stuff that's either violating the rules, ensuring pixel power stays in their hands, or just, you know, politics. But that's just speculation.
I am vehemently against the server's laissez-faire policy, because you have a responsibility to ensure this game is played fairly by all parties. The point of the game is to have fun and make other have fun, not to mirror real life's inequalities both inRP and ooRP. You have to oversee what people do, especially when these people have such an impact on other players.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Saronsen - 06-01-2021
(06-01-2021, 01:25 AM)SquigglyKey Wrote: I often wonder why governments are so secretive, what’s the reasoning behind that?
Same reason the devteam is. Stops people from whining non-stop about decisions while they're in the process of being voted on, as well as preventing people from trying to lobby for support from the outside.
At least, for LibGov when we had more honest folks in the fold. Can't speak for the other governments, or LibGov now with a certain banned vote-manipulator being back in.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Saronsen - 06-01-2021
(06-01-2021, 02:05 AM)Kherty Wrote: Giving power to only a handful of person, and excluding the rest is plain ol' discrimination. I agree with Karlotta, however, ensuring that official members "have more fun" compared to the indies is rather meh.LibGov consists of 1iCs and 2iCs of all official factions in Liberty(* and **). Duplicates (Two LSF, Two LN) only have one representative, though I believe this rule change has forced it to be two reps per faction again. I wonder who lobbied the Admins for that.
These very persons will dictate how decisions are made, like Saronsen said; if true, majority vote should be the norm, and if the contrary was enforced, this should be concerning.
It was fairly simple, two votes per NPC faction. At one time we used to have non-voting advisors too.
*IC was deemed to be Inter-House, and LibGov (at the time, dunno if IC is back in) decided to leave them out of the voting process.
**[LIA] was deemed highly problematic as first, their roleplay was just a Civilian intelligence agency that supposedly had as much agency as the government backed agency, and the whole purpose of existing was the 1iC wanting a leadership position when returning to =LSF= after being away ten years, being upset I didn't want to give them it, and making their own faction. They were quickly backed up by the certain vote-manipulating person, and he took over as 2iC. Some extremely hostile back and forth, mostly from this certain banned person, combined with this certain person claiming we were biased against them solely because Saronsen didn't want another LSF faction resulted in LibGov voting to leave them of the government voting process. And it was a full majority, with a resounding 'No'. After a few months, there was another vote to allow in an LIA representative, one to replace one of the LSF reps if approved. I abstained at first, but the then 1iC started DMing people after being told the vote was in progress (One of the things we liked to avoid) and begin begging for a 'Yes' vote.
I left LibGov because it seems like integrity was given up that day in favor of 'giving them a chance'
Quote:Moreover, if governments are so secretive like SquigglyKey said, this is also, very much concerning, because this is technically proof that they're doing stuff that's either violating the rules, ensuring pixel power stays in their hands, or just, you know, politics. But that's just speculation.
I'll be more than happy to tell you every little thing about LibGovs voting and thought process. We might have been the biggest willing congregation of people who actively disliked each other for any number of reasons on the server that isn't the dev chats. Thus voting in favor/against things was specifically for things related to the game, and generally not related to personal grudges.
Everything was within the rules, and every single change we voted for was always vetted by the Admins/Mods before being approved and applied.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Groshyr - 06-01-2021
Is there anything that important voting in LibGov so people outside it cannot know about?
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Saronsen - 06-01-2021
(06-01-2021, 06:39 AM)Groshyr Wrote: Is there anything that important voting in LibGov so people outside it cannot know about?
Has there been anything you actually wanted to know about before it was voted on? It's mostly busywork trying to keep up with Story/Game (ships, weapons, factions) changes, approving licenses, so on. It's just not public discussion because as you see with someone who was in vote to get into LibGov, people from outside will DM people in LibGov and beg for votes. Anything controversial is swat down by admins (and story if you would believe it), so basically everything was voted on and sent to the player request section to be looked at.
RE: Admin Notice: House Governments - Groshyr - 06-01-2021
Fair point, but Governments are not Developers: their role is different, and due to their less influential over story and development role their 'secrecy mode' is not that important as it would be for said story leaks. If you have issue with people that begging for votes (what is both sad and amusing, to be honest) you can either ignore them or tell to get lost: depends on what approach you prefer.