Our group [AI] doesn't have ANY battleships, but around ~20 cruisers in its service. Therefore I would say there are ~1000 snubs, all linked to the hive mind. We are large enough to combat the Order.
(05-13-2013, 06:03 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: Despite numerous mentions, I cannot see the Council on that list. I believe it would be best placed along the Order and the Core. Keep in mind that the Council may use old rusty technology, but that is still old rusty Gallic technology. As for the numbers, there is at least 3 if not 4 battleships just in Roussillon, and enough more in Champagne to keep the Royal navy out of there. So I'd say about 12-15 battleships would be accurate, however that still wouldn't get them above Corsair/Outcasts.
Actually, Council have exactly 5 Redemptions in Sirius, 3 are stationed permanently at Roussillon to provide protection while 2 are non-stationary, but mostly preform guarding duties at Roussillon.
As for Champagne the numbers are high. Like, higher than they should be. The Council during the civil war had about 50 Redemptions, with about 40% of them in the other border worlds (later surviving Redemptions moved to Languedoc) and 60% at Champagne (thus forming the Redemption line that keeps the valors at bay).
With that I'd gather Council have closer to 35 Redemptions currently, with most of them unable to leave Champagne due to the fact if they do - GRN will swarm in.
However, cap numbers don't make up for military strengh, as demonstrated by GMG, Council counts also on the Gallic Brigands and Maquis to help with snub strength of Champagne, otherwise they'd lack the needed numbers for that.
Overall, I'd put them where they've been placed, but the numbers are simply different.
(05-13-2013, 06:52 AM)monmarfori Wrote: Our group [AI] doesn't have ANY battleships, but around ~20 cruisers in its service. Therefore I would say there are ~1000 snubs, all linked to the hive mind. We are large enough to combat the Order.
Your faction is firstly, not a lore based one, and not even official so it could be inserted into the lore. For all that matters you could have 100 battleships currently - doesn't really matter, since it wouldn't be included in here.
Using a straightup "military power" ranking can be misleading, seeing as the way that power is used and distributed between heavy assets and fast strike ships differs between factions. Outcasts and Corsairs focus more on raider fleets. House navies focus more on capital fatties. But there was a document that did describe the military capacity for the various factions... and believe it or not, Gallia wasn't far above Liberty on that list. (Order was: Gallia - Liberty - Rheinland - Bretonia - Kusari from the top of my head). Kusari, having no wars to fight, would be rapidly increasing in strength as it can rebuild its fleet unhindered by a front - it's Bretonia which would be on the house list bottom for 4.87.
As for the minor powers, none of them would be able to challenge a house navy, even a heavily weakened one like Bretonia, headon. Still, among the minor powers there's also an order:
GMG - Considered a small house in and of itself. Near exclusive focus on strikecraft.
Nomads (includes Wilde): After having stomped hard on their main enemies, the Nomads gained some breathing room and are building up in the Edge Worlds. Something Treewyrm is working on on the dev end incidentally.
Corsairs/Outcasts: About equal in military power. Outcasts have more skillful pilots, but the Corsairs have greater numbers and stronger ships. Both have a bigger raider fleet then capital assets. That's the NPCs everyone's always shooting
Council: Has a decent number of outdated GRN ships and highly motivated crews. They expended a significant amount of their forces in breaching the minefields, but still have enough to deter the GRN from overwhelming Marne.
Red Hessians: Still significantly weaker then the Corsairs/Outcasts since they don't have a planet and planetary economy to support them, but stronger then most other unlawful groups.
Kusari Exiles: Still a decently sized fleet. It is a bigger political then military threat to Kusari and Gallia though.
Order / Core: Both took heavy losses when the Nomads wasted Toledo. Both are squabbling between themselves which prevents a rapid rebuild of their forces. Score one for the Jellies.
Any other factions are insignificant in military terms. Yes, that includes other capwielding factions like the Zoners, IMG, Colonials, Blood Dragons and piracy focused factions such as the Unioners, Liberty Rogues, Mollies. House corporations aren't military to begin with, so those would not even be listed.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
(05-10-2013, 12:55 PM)Omicron Wrote: Order & Core (excellent on tech, skill and numbers but good chunk of their strenght tied to Omicrons)
Not really, no. As AD said both groups got smashed to the ground by the Nomads and the feud between them isn't really helping. And while the Core still has the financial backing of their house Guild, the Order doesn't. So it that sense it's going to be quite hard for the Order to survive later on in it's current state, considering that they're not really so good on the number of allies they have these days.
And I disagree AD, putting the HF/CR under "insignificant" is wrong, that is, if you actually think of the Exiles as a "military might", they have what, two battleships and some smaller strike craft? The exiles compared to the HF and CR are an absolute zero in my opinion. And while the Exiles used to be normal naval officers, both the HF and CR have always been fighting in less favorable conditions their entire faction lives, meaning their pilot "quality" would be above the Exiles as well.
And the Zoners can't even be classified as a "military entity" to begin with, why? They're not a group or a nation and only use one ID due to game mechanics. Each ship or small group of ships have it's own ranking structure (or the equivalent).
- The origin of the Exiles is that of a major portion of the Kusari house fleet. They took heavy losses, but remained a fighting force, supported by Bretonia. I hate repeating myself, but THE AMOUNT OF BATTLESHIP-CLASS VESSELS DOES NOT DETERMINE MILITARY PROWESS. It doesn't matter how many battleships you have if you can't afford the men and fuel to run them. That same arguement you make on why the Order would have a hard time, is why the HF and CR would have problems.
- The HF have no in-lore systems, no corporate backing (seriously, any claims that Liberty corps would be backing them are silly, since those corps run the Liberty government that the HFL wants to overthrow), no piracy income and only small smuggling route income. They can't afford to be a major military force right now (and possibly, not ever).
- The CR were almost wiped out by Gallia and have to rebuild from scratch - same deal, they can't afford huge military expenses either.
- The Zoners aren't a unified military, that is why they rank insignificant. There may be a group here or there that manages a sizeable local force, but there is no "Zoner Navy" because there is no unified siriuswide Zoner group spanning -all- Zoners (and there can't ever be, since that would go against their nature). Local militia rank insignificant in comparison to both major pirate factions and house navies (they deal with raiding fleets, not fullblown military invasions)
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
I would toss IMG under garden variety corp with above-average military prowess. Somewhere between LOL and garden paramilitary. Maybe under Punk tier.
We aren't exactly supposed to be that rich inRP but we do have a paramilitary force with our own shipline thanks to aid from the Colonials, so our defensive capabilities are above that of a standard corp.
OS&C is powerful due to links. Dealing with rich people tend to gain you a few favours here and there. Also, links to underground communities as with Vanilla lore. We have links to the Hogosha, Corsairs and to some degree, Outcasts. Military wise, we are LOL tier, we can only gank you with liners.