Um... yeah, in all fairness, the zoners are not designed to be a huge trading company, so the rule must stand. However, I agree something needs to be done about their building bases. Perhaps they'd hire Dauman to build, Bowex to supply, or something like that. But yeah, ideas are sorely needed.
' Wrote:Um... yeah, in all fairness, the zoners are not designed to be a huge trading company, so the rule must stand. However, I agree something needs to be done about their building bases. Perhaps they'd hire Dauman to build, Bowex to supply, or something like that. But yeah, ideas are sorely needed.
So, what is it you think we are designed for, Spirit? Because it's sure as hell not pvp.
We've got our own 5k transport, and now all of a sudden we've got a really good use for it, but derp, ID restrictions.
' Wrote:So, what is it you think we are designed for, Spirit? Because it's sure as hell not pvp.
Surviving and scraping out an existance, not being a cap building super-house... look, my opinion on the zoner RP in disco is poor at best, let's not degenerate this thread and leave this as it is.
It doesn't really matter what your opinion is. The current lore regarding Zoners is that they are an economic power within Sirius, they have the ability to produce cap ships, but are very fragmented. Not trying to be rude, but your opinion doesn't change the lore. If it helps, I also think Zoner lore is ridiculous.
The Zoners are the people who supply the Border and Edge Worlds. Not house corporations. Zoners hiring house corporations to build bases in the Border and Edge makes no sense. None.
Most of you posting here have shown zero knowledge on actual Zoner lore or Zoner role play over the past three years for that matter. No where in vanilla Zoner lore does it state Zoners as a whole hate the houses. It quite clearly states for various reasons they left house space.
There was never any role play or lore reason for the restriction on the ID. I know because I've spoken to Dab, the developer who suggested the restriction, at length regarding it several times over the past few years. The restriction was purely out of role play in an effort to cut down on the number of idiotic power traders abusing the Zoner ID and to also boost the activity levels of house corporations. It worked splendidly too. I hated it at first as it prevented OSI from doing what OSI was designed to do; but we adapted and survived. Yes, we've long requested to be given an exception to that restriction; it is my opinion that it makes sense for OSI.
As for the complete removal of the restriction? No. It would return the ID back to the prime ID for non role playing power traders and I don't want that. Nor do I want the rage from the pirates who encounter them.
A better solution is for the commodities required to build player bases to be move somewhere a Zoner can dock. Or merely what do what OSI planned to do and what we've done since the restriction was put in place. Use BWT to fill ZBTs.
The real issue you need to ask yourself is this - can Zoner IDs dock to player bases in house space at all? Seeing as a player base has no reputation they can't be Zoner bases and thus the Zoner ID cannot dock to them. Another matter entirely though and one I think is moot. Zoners shouldn't be building Zoner bases in house space or supplying non Zoner bases in house space.
Quote:As for the complete removal of the restriction? No. It would return the ID back to the prime ID for non role playing power traders and I don't want that. Nor do I want the rage from the pirates who encounter them.
Being a Zoner has never exempted one from piracy. It may cause repurcussions for the pirate, but that's for the pirate to weigh the pros and cons. And, more importantly, the houses could just add the Zoners to the list and allow them to carry specific cargo and deny other cargo. Therefore Zoners could make sense and function normally without being overpowered compared to other shipping factions. They'd be able to haul goods to more/different places, but in turn houses would be wary of what they allow Zoners to legally transport and where.
Quote:A better solution is for the commodities required to build player bases to be move somewhere a Zoner can dock. Or merely what do what OSI planned to do and what we've done since the restriction was put in place. Use BWT to fill ZBTs.
Adding a bunch of commodities to places that are convenient for Zoners would probably involve a lot of extra work for the dev team so that OP routes aren't created. It'd be much easier on everybody to just let the Zoners dock where the stuff is sold now.
As for using a BWT to fill a ZBT, yes, as I mentioned already, that does work. But it requires two people to travel together and one of them is still using an inefficient ship.
I think at some point soon we're going to have to face the reality that we have more factions who want bases than we have people with which to support bases' construction and maintenance. And at that point, we're going to have to make some concessions.
Quote:The real issue you need to ask yourself is this - can Zoner IDs dock to player bases in house space at all? Seeing as a player base has no reputation they can't be Zoner bases and thus the Zoner ID cannot dock to them. Another matter entirely though and one I think is moot. Zoners shouldn't be building Zoner bases in house space or supplying non Zoner bases in house space.
As you stated, the Zoners do not hate the houses. We only wish to live freely, and not be subject to their rule. That doesn't mean we don't need to trade with them for supplies, and that doesn't mean they don't want the stuff we're finding out in the edge worlds. So I agree, Zoners should not be building bases in house space. But I don't see anything wrong with docking there for purposes of commerce, provided the measures I mentioned previously can keep the population of Zoner transports in line with house shipping.
The arrival of player bases make this an exciting time to be a Zoner. An exciting time to be any kind of transport, really. This opens the door for players to be useful to one another in a manner beyond being a pvp ally or enemy. But something's got to give or it's not really going to work for the non-houses.
And at the risk of waxing off topic..
I like the Zoner lore. I like what the Zoners accomplished - building a society of their own and gaining the capability of defending it. There are a lot of factions that have capital ships that have less resources and influence than the Zoners. Every faction has come a long way - somehow - from how they started in vanilla. I wish the Zoners could return to the days of the Council, but I am content with the current lore.
Role play laws do not stop non role playing power traders. The restriction wasn't put in place to stop role players. It was put in place to stop non role players.
If we have more bases than people to supply said bases - the concession will be for some of them to fall. Removing the restriction on the Zoner ID will not help that one iota.
I'm not sure the need you see justifies what your asking. Spending a few extra minutes to fill up a convoy of ZBTs with a BWT isn't going to make it impossible to supply a player base. Just means it takes a tad longer.
Well that's great for you and the OSI, Daedric. But all of the pirate factions and other groups that don't have access to house shipping? They want to play with the new toys, too. Is OSI going to be able to supply everyone? Surely not. Are we to accept, therefore, that some factions will have a significant edge over others because they can/cannot get access to the new equipment? That doesn't sound very fair or balanced :nono:
So yes, I do think the need justifies what I'm asking. Removing the restriction on the Zoner ID will allow all Zoners, not just the coordinated official faction members, to help out. I see it everywhere: Random PM's asking me for help, system broadcasts begging traders to go get stuff they need on-the-double. And often I have to tell them sorry I can't help you because my freakin' ID is an anchor tied to my leg!
And roleplay laws do stop the non-roleplaying characters. It's called house police and military blow you up for hauling contraband or FR you out of the house... The rheinland, bretonia, and liberty navies and police have been very vigilant about this, from what I've experienced.
As I'm sure you know the real powertrading money to be made is hauling ore between houses. Find somebody who can mine something you want to haul, pay for him to fill you up, jump four or five systems and bam, 30-something million profit one-way. Compared to this, the profits of hauling any normal commodity pales..
And finally, I should concede that the solution I've been arguing for is only one possible solution to the problem. There are others, such as a significant reduction in the cost/upkeep cost of creating a base, or the equipment becoming available elsewhere. I'm making the assumption that the devs put a lot of thought into the current numbers and are relying on the rules eventually evolving to make it work.
thing is: many people using Zoner ID to trade with ore also. I met many Zoner 5000 ships with ore. half of they sayed: you cant pirate me Im zoner. o.O Ye, if you Zoner- dont trade with ore between houses. but no. people dont care
' Wrote:thing is: many people using Zoner ID to trade with ore also. I met many Zoner 5000 ships with ore. half of they sayed: you cant pirate me Im zoner. o.O Ye, if you Zoner- dont trade with ore between houses. but no. people dont care
Personally, I think he should be able to haul ore between houses. Mostly because I don't think you could make up a rule that states you have to have one end of your trade route in the edge worlds and trade between the two.
But by all means, pirate him! He is not exempt from piracy. We could write that right on the ID. Of course, if he decides to report that to us, there could be in-rp repercussions, but that's roleplay. As long as you are acting within the rules, it doesn't matter if he is ignorant of them.
' Wrote:Personally, I think he should be able to haul ore between houses. Mostly because I don't think you could make up a rule that states you have to have one end of your trade route in the edge worlds and trade between the two.
But by all means, pirate him! He is not exempt from piracy. We could write that right on the ID. Of course, if he decides to report that to us, there could be in-rp repercussions, but that's roleplay. As long as you are acting within the rules, it doesn't matter if he is ignorant of them.
Yes I know. I already pirates few Zoners who trading with ore. Its just odd to see that Zoners thinks that I cant pirate them becasue Im using Freeports.
but a question: Im Corsair- houses my enemies. and trading with ore you helping my enemies. so why not pirate you? this what many people dont keep in mind