Quote:also Bowex are also renowned for enticing others to shoot them first through harassment and bugging pirates which then gives them an excuse to engage said pirates later.
Why would that matter? Who cares? It's the choice of the pirate to engage and if he engages, then it's his fault.
Because that would make them hypocritical of the CoF laws where:
The following are laws which apply to Confederation Zoner installations:
2. A) Combat or attempts to induce others to combat of any kind within the NFZ is prohibited as it endangers the station. (Exception Zoner security assets.)
Feeling the laws apply to pirates but not to them. Your right though if he retaliates to said harassment then yes it is his fault in regards to breaching the NFZ but so are the harassers. But inRP what lawful company pilots would dare harass dangerous pirates. All of this feels very one sided to me and a case of double standards.
Quote:1. EVERYONE respects the zoners NFZ no matter if Pirate, BAF; IMG, Sairs simply everyone
Law authorities won't respect NFZ around every Zoner base, if they are harbouring criminals. As for NFZ, Bethleiem is not applicable here, due to the fact that base is deep inside Liberty territory.
If Zoner tried to obstruct the law with "silly" (from POV of law authority) NFZ, I'd give them ultimatum to not to do that again, or their base would be confiscated - or even destroyed, banning entire Zoner population. You don't respect our laws, we won't respect your existence.
so a house would decleare war on the zoners??? do i get this right?
would be nice RP i'd support the Zoners being a pirate
No no no, it's more like: "if you don't live by our law, that's okay. But if you harbor the criminals of the state, you will have a bad time. No Space Gypsy will ever tell us what to do. Be grateful we haven't wiped you out from the face of the Sirius."
Or something like that.
AFAIK, the only house being rather unfriendly-to-hostile for Zoners is, surprise, Gallia - as Gallics won't abide their law or NFZ.
(04-29-2015, 10:12 AM)Stefan_Steinar Wrote: it would be great if the zoners fine EVERYONE whos shooting someone near a base of them no matter if its the 'might' BAF or a small pirate faction or a mining corp
1. Prove it and we'll do something. in my time Admin'ing various FPs, i've never had unlawfuls submit reports about lawfuls breaking the NFZ. So please, hold the sodium chloride until after some unlawfuls actually submit reports.
2. FP1 is, of course, a special case like Bethlehem. It sits in one of the most contested systems, with opposing influences on many levels and all with big fleet of big ships with big guns (and thats not counting small groups). Fines and such concerning house militaries would be handled especially carefully due to the nature of them.
3. Politics: Freeport Admining is a game of politics. we cant just fine everybody (see point 2 about the big ships with big guns) willy nilly and expect compliance. With factions, usually things are negotiated to a compromise. indies and other harder to reach fellows are usually the ones that cop the more visible hammering because they're relatively simple.
Also, Toris, thats why zoner bases and freeports (barring bethlehem) exist outside official house space.
Well I took my pirate to FP1 today from NL as soon as I docked then undocked there was Bowex and a BAF Destroyer sat outside the freeport making claims I assaulted them inside the NFZ...A zoner then logged on and asked for proof of this...shock to me they had nothing
They also kept going on about my papers? I'am guessing this is ID? I didn't think IDs were in roleplay and people should go on IFF?
I am uploading some SS's of some of the convo via forum unsure if they will load but rather funny
(04-29-2015, 06:13 PM)MonkeyMan Wrote: Well I took my pirate to FP1 today from NL as soon as I docked then undocked there was Bowex and a BAF Destroyer sat outside the freeport making claims I assaulted them inside the NFZ...A zoner then logged on and asked for proof of this...shock to me they had nothing
They also kept going on about my papers? I'am guessing this is ID? I didn't think IDs were in roleplay and people should go on IFF?
I am uploading some SS's of some of the convo via forum unsure if they will load but rather funny
ID's are in role play actually and I will say this, as said before, Zoner's have rights to their freeport's; to demand to know whats going on. However in FP1's case, it's kinda inside the Bretonia charter as well (Kinda so to speak) so if anything unlawful happens near it or even a pirate docks there, the Bret's have a right to demand the FP CoF guys to deal with it; in which case this is Sabru. HOWEVER!
The lawfuls should also respect the NFZ, BUT! In this case, the BAF/Bowex/whoever Bret lawful, have the rights to fire in it to stop pirates. Its stated in the CoF laws to "Not drag fighting to the FP." or to "Run to the FP if the lawfuls are trying to stop you."
While we can't stop everyone from doing this, the CoF guys still will have to deal with it, because inRP; its their job to do such. It's kinda like this. Your a fugitive from the US and you run to the UK; in the UK, they don't care why your there, but the fact your running from the US law enforcement to another country would look bad on yourself and the UK; for the fact that you now drug your problems from just yourself, to an entire country now and now the US has to go in and speak with the UK to bring you back. (Its a poor example yes but it would sum it up)
(04-29-2015, 06:38 PM)Shizune Wrote: ID's are in role play actually and I will say this, as said before, Zoner's have rights to their freeport's; to demand to know whats going on. However in FP1's case, it's kinda inside the Bretonia charter as well (Kinda so to speak) so if anything unlawful happens near it or even a pirate docks there, the Bret's have a right to demand the FP CoF guys to deal with it; in which case this is Sabru. HOWEVER!
The lawfuls should also respect the NFZ, BUT! In this case, the BAF/Bowex/whoever Bret lawful, have the rights to fire in it to stop pirates. Its stated in the CoF laws to "Not drag fighting to the FP." or to "Run to the FP if the lawfuls are trying to stop you."
While we can't stop everyone from doing this, the CoF guys still will have to deal with it, because inRP; its their job to do such. It's kinda like this. Your a fugitive from the US and you run to the UK; in the UK, they don't care why your there, but the fact your running from the US law enforcement to another country would look bad on yourself and the UK; for the fact that you now drug your problems from just yourself, to an entire country now and now the US has to go in and speak with the UK to bring you back. (Its a poor example yes but it would sum it up)
Then the same for say FP2/6/Ames so to speak yet these are not under "special" conditions after all Zoners have capital ships to defend the right to dock. Also the Zoner "Fearless" Destroyer was made for this. Zoners make there bases to avoid House rule, not to build a base in no mans land and still come into those laws in fear or destruction...Plus to stop a pirate docking at say FP1 would mean rep hacking them right? Which inturn will block them from all freeports.
As for this case No they have no right to fire to stop pirates docking when I was never in combat merely just flew there to see what would happen and surprise surprise a anti pirate gank horde logged on and headed to FP1 after noticing I was in Omega 3(using playerlist)
Personally I just think people just like to moan about being attacked and will do anything to stop it, space is meant to be dangerous but that what makes it fun, as tbh I'd get bored trading all day knowing that i'm not gonna get pirated takes excitement about of it.
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We were already in Omega 3 doing other things. We have contracts to fulfill out that way. Our security ships followed you from New London after I spotted you at Kensington; they were securing the route I was using. Player list doesn't come into it. None of us even knew who that character was until this encounter. That character's not special enough to warrant that kind of treatment in of itself, don't worry.
As for Freeport 1 and Bretonia, the situation has changed substantial storywise since the station was first established. Sprague has been fully colonized and is being used as an overflow settlement to house Bretonian refugees that were moved off Leeds. Consequently, there is a far higher security presence in the area, mostly in the form of BPA and Civil Defence Initiative (corporate) forces. Whether the Zoners and other entities like it or not, Bretonia is moving into the system in force (due to war desperation).
If anyone else wants to comment further on Bowex) and our activities, as we have stressed repeatedly, we do have a feedback thread. I'd love it if people actually used it, because it's terribly quiet most of the time.
Addendum:
As a final passing thought, the no fire zone isn't an OORP construct or a server rule. It's a roleplay construct and any party ignoring the local rules will face roleplay consequences. Complaints about Bowex/Zoner/whoever hipocracy is frankly bemusing as a part of this. Hipocrites exist in reality, and they exist in roleplay.
If an unlawful feels a lawful character has done something hypocritical that broke the Zoner's laws, the onus is on that player to do the relevant roleplay to prove that point to the Zoners. So far this hasn't happened. I would welcome it if it did, seeing as this is a net increase in the total amount of roleplay being derived from a situation.
In short, less complaining and more roleplay, please.
(04-29-2015, 09:53 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Just so that everyone is on the same page here, I have just read all the CoF Zoner Laws and no where does it say that anyone who docks on a Freeport/Zoner base cannot go and pirate or commit unlawful actions afterwards. It says only that piracy / unlawful actions must not be carried out within 10k/NFZ of the Zoner base and nothing about staging attacks!?
So quite clearly all those here who are trying to get ships that use FP1 as a staging post for piracy banned are just doing so in order to be rid of the problem more quickly.
Because as the CoF laws currently state it is not illegal to use a zoner base as a staging post for piracy so long as said piracy occurs outside the NFZ. Since no laws have been broken I dont really see the point of the other side in all this other than to try and Nerf Pirates into oblivion......
(08-09-2014, 06:24 PM)Confederation of Freeports Wrote:
Laws of the Confederation of Freeports
Herein lies the laws and rules governing the majority of the Freeports and Zoner stations in Sirius. We strive to keep the peace, as well as create a safe and welcome home to all Zoners, as well as visitors to our installations. We will though not allow ourselves to be pushed around or over due to those whom deem us weak or without defenses. Below you will find the list of Zoner stations and their administrators, as well as Confederation laws.
Section One - Base Administration
This is the current listing of station administrators for the various Zoner installations. It also contains recognized systems controlled by Zoners.
Omega 49 - Open to all Zoner groups. Under the protectorship of the CoF.
Omicron 74 - Open to all Zoner groups.
Section Two - Laws
The following are laws which apply to Confederation Zoner installations: 1.The No-Fire Zone covers a 10 kilometer sphere around each confederation station.
2. The No-Fire-Zone is an area in which no offensive actions against any vessel is allowed. This includes attempts at piracy/taxation, the use of weapons (Guns, missiles, mines, cruise disruptors), intentional ramming and the malicious redirection of weapons fire. Acts of piracy within the No-Fire-Zone are also prohibited.
2. A) Combat or attempts to induce others to combat of any kind within the NFZ is prohibited as it endangers the station. (Exception Zoner security assets.)
2. B) Vessels fulfilling a bounty posted by a Zoner faction or the Confederation of Freeports are classed as Zoner Security assets (With regards to law 2) for the duration of their combat with the bountied party. Engaging of vessels other than the bountied party, other than in self defence or in direct pursuit of the bountied party will result in the immediate revocation of this privilege for the duration of combat and the vessel will be treated as a normal vessel subject to all penalties associated with breaking the No-Fore-Zone.
2. C) The discharge of weapons for intimidation of display purposes is prohibited to all vessels except Zoner security assets and pre-booked fireworks displays.
3.Violating a No-Fire Zone can lead to immediate prosecution and engagement, by the stations security assets and/or any Zoner pilot present. 4. Use of confederation stations to base off of for attacks against any group is prohibited.
4. A) The purchasing of base construction materials for the construction and maintenance of forward operating bases not in the territory of the station owners is prohibited, for example purchasing materials for supplying a Corsair base in New London or a Bretonian Armed Forces base in Omega-49.
5. No capital class vessel shall remain within the NFZ of any given Freeport unless assisting CoF personnel or the vessel in question is granted temporary permission by on-duty CoF personnel. Capital class vessels that are asked to leave the NFZ shall do so immediately or face the full ramifications of violating Freeport laws.
5. A) Capital class vessels include Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Carrier, Battleship and Dreadnought class vessels. Not included in this definition are Gunboat and Gunship class vessels and below.
5. B) This rule does not apply to Zoner capital class vessels.
6. No ship may loiter around the Freeport. The No-Fire Zone is NOT a security blanket. Land, do your business and either continue on or take up quarter for the evening. Loitering only attracts unwanted attention.
7. A ship that runs to the Freeport under fire is as guilty as the pursuer for bringing the fight to the base. The person chased will be fined or denied docking rights based on the severity of the offence and the vessels used in the altercation as well as the pursuer. Pursuing a ship into the NFZ for the purpose of combat or bounty collection is prohibited.
7. A) Any zoner vessel that initiates hostilities and then attempts to run to the NFZ for cover shall be held in contempt and will be treated as any other pilot. Zoner vessels that enter combat not of their own accord shall still be extended the protection of station security assets if they run into the No Fire Zone.
8. Those deemed criminals towards confederation station and other Zoner installations as determined by confederation station administration and their associates will be denied docking.
9. Those judged to be in violation of the law are subject to penalties that include, but are not limited to: destruction of the vessel, fines, bounties, and denial of docking rights at all Zoner stations Sirius-wide.
10. No base or other installation may be built within 5k of any CoF claimed space.
10. A) Pre-approved installations are the exception to this rule The following are laws which apply to Omega 49, as agreed upon by OSI: 1. Combat between gunship and smaller vessels is permitted system wide, to compensate for this additional shielding has been applied to each of the stations, also, to reduce any risk to the planet the firing of Torpedoes and other solid fire projectiles that have a danger of impacting planet surface and not dissipating in the atmosphere are prohibited within 10K of planet Gran Canaria. (Torpedos, Gunboat missiles, Mini-Razors, Battle Razors, Pulse cannons)
2. The presence, passage, and combat of cruiser class vessels is permitted in Omega-49, however, combat between these entities is prohibited within 20k of any permanent or semi permanent installation except in self defense, any vessel initiating combat with such vessels within 20k of any permanent or semi permanent installation is grounds for a fine or ban under Confederation Law.
3. The presence, and passage of Battleship, and Carrier class vessels is permitted in Omega-49, however combat involving such vessels is prohibited except in self defense, any vessel initiating combat with such vessels liable for a fine or ban under Confederation Law.
4. Any group or vessel found to be in combat with a Zoner vessel within Omega 49 will be asked to explain themselves after the fact via official communication, should they fail to respond or fail to have a compelling reason the commanding officers or superior organisation of said group will be contacted.
4. A) Should a satisfactory conclusion be unable to be reached between the higher echelons and the confederation the ships involved or group involved in the offence may be liable to a fine or a ban.
NOTE: Stations not under CoF may have different laws.
Section Three - Restricted Space and Installations
Baffin - The entire system is held as a NFZ by the Temporary Autonomous Zoners, and NFZ policies apply system wide. Their laws can be found here.
Pueblo Bunito - Only TAZ members and approved persons may dock at their sacred Temple.
Omega 49 - The entire system is held as a NFZ by the Confederation of Freeports.