(03-06-2017, 04:21 AM)Vendetta Wrote: You on your own can't solve the problems that the faction faces. It's up to the person in charge to. What you attempted was a good try, but realistically speaking it won't work if nothing changes on that side of the problem.
I've fixed so many problems while Michal is still leader. I sat down with Legionnaires and Golanski and we were cordial, and I KNOW Michal didn't hold the best view of Legionnaire. One reason he wasn't added to the Order awhile back.
If he can at down with Legionnaire, I wonder what he did that no on else did in the past.
I can think of two instances where we tried that in the past, and both times he left.
I can link a screenshot that @Implosion already linked in his leaving thread.
I can think of another three examples. One good conversation with one person doesn't outweigh the past behavior that still hasn't been owned up to.
Oh I know talks between you two hit rock bottom, bUT everyone blames him and refuses to look at themselves to see what they did to illicit said response.
You'd think with Michal and I's conflicted personalities I'd have been kicked from the Order long ago.
(03-06-2017, 04:21 AM)Vendetta Wrote: You on your own can't solve the problems that the faction faces. It's up to the person in charge to. What you attempted was a good try, but realistically speaking it won't work if nothing changes on that side of the problem.
I've fixed so many problems while Michal is still leader. I sat down with Legionnaires and Golanski and we were cordial, and I KNOW Michal didn't hold the best view of Legionnaire. One reason he wasn't added to the Order awhile back.
If he can at down with Legionnaire, I wonder what he did that no on else did in the past.
I can think of two instances where we tried that in the past, and both times he left.
I can link a screenshot that @Implosion already linked in his leaving thread.
I can think of another three examples. One good conversation with one person doesn't outweigh the past behavior that still hasn't been owned up to.
Oh I know talks between you two hit rock bottom, bUT everyone blames him and refuses to look at themselves to see what they did to illicit said response.
You'd think with Michal and I's conflicted personalities I'd have been kicked from the Order long ago.
Instead I'm 2iC.
Conflicted personalities are one thing, but you can't expect people to start solving a problem if their primary reason for having issues isn't addressed or taking steps to build bridges.
My main gripe with the Order isn't even just one person, but a history of poor interactions, behavior, attitude and that's just what I can think of off of the top of my head. (It's late. I'm tired.)
I could sit here and bore everyone with the details about it, but when the majority agrees that one major point is problematic, you have to think it's probably a good idea for that point to address the situation themselves and own up to their mistakes. Forging solutions is never a one-way street, but when you try to expect everyone else to take the first step, when there's so many people expecting the exact same from you, you end up going nowhere.
I've made my attempts at fixing things. The last time it was brought up, we were all put into a chat and he sat silently instead of chiming in at all, which helped nobody and certainly didn't resolve any issues.
So while you expect everyone to look at themselves to resolve the issue, you're avoiding the primary concern that almost everyone shares, letting it once again fade away into the background to not be acknowledged. The only way that issue that people all share will be resolved is if that person - not just you - takes these kinds of steps to make amends for their behavior.
Only then can you really start scratching the surface of the issues you're facing. Simply pushing it aside and saying "Oh, it's just people hating" is kind of the attitude that causes these problems. You need to look at yourselves as well, and then examine why all these people are pointing fingers at one person and why they have these problems.
(03-06-2017, 06:16 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I made a long post. But I deleted it.
My final plea has turned into my last hurrah. There is nothing left for me to do but lurk and write stories. Log for events.
I won't betray my friends. I don't have many left. And I will never betray them.
You all know where Player Requests are.
If there is truly enough people who think Omicron is lucifer himself.
Go.
Do it.
Take action.
Because when I get home and on Skype, I will. And no one will like it.
I think you misinterpreted my point.
My point is, that while you trying is a good start, it doesn't solve the bigger issue if the bigger issue is someone not wanting to solve these problems on their own accord, and that if you really cared about fixing it, you'd try to convince them to see that point and take these steps themselves, such as actively apologizing to people for one.
(03-06-2017, 06:16 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I made a long post. But I deleted it.
My final plea has turned into my last hurrah. There is nothing left for me to do but lurk and write stories. Log for events.
I won't betray my friends. I don't have many left. And I will never betray them.
You all know where Player Requests are.
If there is truly enough people who think Omicron is lucifer himself.
Go.
Do it.
Take action.
Because when I get home and on Skype, I will. And no one will like it.
I think you misinterpreted my point.
My point is, that while you trying is a good start, it doesn't solve the bigger issue if the bigger issue is someone not wanting to solve these problems on their own accord, and that if you really cared about fixing it, you'd try to convince them to see that point and take these steps themselves, such as actively apologizing to people for one.
Will he get apologies for anything he feels he was wronged for?
(03-06-2017, 06:16 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I made a long post. But I deleted it.
My final plea has turned into my last hurrah. There is nothing left for me to do but lurk and write stories. Log for events.
I won't betray my friends. I don't have many left. And I will never betray them.
You all know where Player Requests are.
If there is truly enough people who think Omicron is lucifer himself.
Go.
Do it.
Take action.
Because when I get home and on Skype, I will. And no one will like it.
I think you misinterpreted my point.
My point is, that while you trying is a good start, it doesn't solve the bigger issue if the bigger issue is someone not wanting to solve these problems on their own accord, and that if you really cared about fixing it, you'd try to convince them to see that point and take these steps themselves, such as actively apologizing to people for one.
Will he get apologies for anything he feels he was wronged for?
Or is this going to be a one way street?
I can say the same thing about your first approach. You expected people to approach you without incentive or reason to believe anything will be done. How do you expect things to get done without giving something to prove to people who feel wronged incentive to try and solve the issues at hand?
(03-06-2017, 06:16 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I made a long post. But I deleted it.
My final plea has turned into my last hurrah. There is nothing left for me to do but lurk and write stories. Log for events.
I won't betray my friends. I don't have many left. And I will never betray them.
You all know where Player Requests are.
If there is truly enough people who think Omicron is lucifer himself.
Go.
Do it.
Take action.
Because when I get home and on Skype, I will. And no one will like it.
I think you misinterpreted my point.
My point is, that while you trying is a good start, it doesn't solve the bigger issue if the bigger issue is someone not wanting to solve these problems on their own accord, and that if you really cared about fixing it, you'd try to convince them to see that point and take these steps themselves, such as actively apologizing to people for one.
Will he get apologies for anything he feels he was wronged for?
Or is this going to be a one way street?
I can say the same thing about your first approach. You expected people to approach you without incentive or reason to believe anything will be done. How do you expect things to get done without giving something to prove to people who feel wronged incentive to try and solve the issues at hand?
I just sat down with Legionnaire and Omicron hours ago to get better relations oorply between Order-Core. Now we are planning weekly events to get activity and work towards a healthier relationship.
All because I went to them, threw them in a chat, and we sat down to talk.
If I can and ready start fostering that without Legionnaire needing an apology, why do you think I can't with you?
I expect people to approach and ask questions and voice concerns that I can explain and show goodwill. I asked from the bottom of my heart for us to come together and fix this.
And I tried. But the only incentive any of you want is an apology from Omicron.
(03-06-2017, 06:53 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I just sat down with Legionnaire and Omicron hours ago to get better relations oorply between Order-Core. Now we are planning weekly events to get activity and work towards a healthier relationship.
All because I went to them, threw them in a chat, and we sat down to talk.
If I can and ready start fostering that without Legionnaire needing an apology, why do you think I can't with you?
Because if I'm not mistaken, the same kind of talk took place between the previous Core leadership, and look how that turned out.
(03-06-2017, 06:53 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I expect people to approach and ask questions and voice concerns that I can explain and show goodwill. I asked from the bottom of my heart for us to come together and fix this.
And I tried. But the only incentive any of you want is an apology from Omicron.
I talked to him. He won't give an apology.
I guess that means nothing changes.
My question was whether or not the majority was ever going to get an apology or any sort of proof of change regarding past behavior, but that was answered.
If he won't do it, then there's nothing you can do. You tried.
(03-05-2017, 09:58 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: Core, K’Hara, Vagrants, Oracles, Wild, Outcasts, Hellfire, Auxesia. I've talked to most of your leaders when I was on Skype regularly, hell last year I'm pretty sure I talked to most of you almost every day. This letter is my call, my plea, for cooperation. We've been at each other’s throats and have argued and had problems. But it only will end up driving people away. Despite our issues with others, we have to set aside our issues and cooperate.
This can essentially be paraphrased as, "what are your issues with the Order so we can resolve them?"
(03-05-2017, 07:45 PM)Kalhmera Wrote: i have to be honest...Its Golanski.
So instead of acknowledging that there might be a problem with Golanski, you respond with "No surely everyone else must be at fault too!" and essentially bury your head in the sand.
I know at least three of the above people have no personal problem with the man, and are looking at things from a strictly objective standpoint, too.
If the problem is the 1ic the 2ic can't fix it. It really is that simple. And yes, you know what? People, individual people, can, in fact, be problematic, without there being another side to the coin.
(03-05-2017, 09:58 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: Core, K’Hara, Vagrants, Oracles, Wild, Outcasts, Hellfire, Auxesia. I've talked to most of your leaders when I was on Skype regularly, hell last year I'm pretty sure I talked to most of you almost every day. This letter is my call, my plea, for cooperation. We've been at each other’s throats and have argued and had problems. But it only will end up driving people away. Despite our issues with others, we have to set aside our issues and cooperate.
This can essentially be paraphrased as, "what are your issues with the Order so we can resolve them?"
(03-05-2017, 07:45 PM)Kalhmera Wrote: i have to be honest...Its Golanski.
So instead of acknowledging that there might be a problem with Golanski, you respond with "No surely everyone else must be at fault too!" and essentially bury your head in the sand.
I know at least three of the above people have no personal problem with the man, and are looking at things from a strictly objective standpoint, too.
If the problem is the 1ic the 2ic can't fix it. It really is that simple. And yes, you know what? People, individual people, can, in fact, be problematic, without there being another side to the coin.
Open up your eyes, man.
No Justin, it's "we all are at fault." I know Golanski is at fault in some ways, I have known him since he was indie. I've known him for a very, very long time. I know he is not at fault nor that he is completely at fault.
But if the only problem either the Order is Omicron, then it's a personal level problem that most likely will require Administration interference.