As you might have noticed, the activity checks ended somewhere mid-way last year and have not been restored due to a huge amount of reasons that have persisted every single month since the last check. From server downtimes to tracker issues to simply not having enough manpower to go through the checks.
There has been one observation that came from this though and it was that either way - the lack of such a check has not had any significant impact on the state of our community nor the roleplay scene. Even more so, we are very well aware that even with the tracker, groups who would have been at risk can get around it by simply handing out a few shared ships or tags to their buddies and racking up the bare minimum online time needed in order to maintain their status quo.
We would like to know the perspectives of the faction leaders and faction members alike as to what do they consider the future of the faction management system in terms of online time and the monthly faction check that had been done some time before. Do you see them as needed, do you feel as though there is an alternative, better way to implement the system and how would you go around it?
This is one of those threads where we would like genuine input from our community members. Keep the discussion civil. Off topic posts will be frowned upon more than usual.
Hm, this is a difficult question, as it carries a whole range of implications.
Some thoughts:
1. Activity Checks & Justification of the "official faction" status
I think we need some kind of method to determine "who earns to stay official", and who does not meet the criteria to stay official. Activity checks did that in the past. Despite being ugly, the stripping of factions made way for new initiatives, forced leaders to rethink, made 2nd ICs take over before the faction was entirely dead, etc... so, going by this train of thought, I'd end with a conclusion of: keep checks.
2. Does the "minimum activity" check really guarantee "real activity"?
As we know, it does not. There are factions that have been grinding the bare minimum for long periods of time, just to hold on to their status of "official". While understandable, it does not help and undermines the pov that I wrote in #1. So, going by this thought, the "1 day in total" logging requirement could also be removed. Active factions get it anyway. Inactives who bother to grind it, will grind it anyway. And those who do not care are dead anyways.
3. The problem of "official" factions:
This checking issue is (at least for me) closely linked to "what does official faction" mean. If we want to keep "official factions" as something that is attractive and a status worth striving for, then there simply has to be a mechanism by which officials can lose their status. A status that can never be threatened is useless and does not serve its intentional use.
This pov would lead to a search of sensible "other" checks that allow a justified decision of "who earns officialdom", and "who loses it because...".
4. The general problem of official faction dying
I mean, let's face it: if the checks had not been cancelled, we would look at a graveyard of stripped factions by now. I am a firm believer that a faction that is not represented by an official, active faction is lost potential in Disco. Therefore, something needs to be done to avoid killing off too many - at leats not in a short time. However, as stated above, it's also impossible to make existing official factions "immune" to losing status/rights attached to it.
5. Different ways of measuring "worthiness to be official":
Perhaps the strict "log 1 day and be fine" approach is not the best. I mean, I think it should be able for a well-lead motivated faction leader to gather this time, but for the sake of the argument, let's look beyond the time requirement.
In my opinion, I would want to see "creative, productive, positive imput" of official factions. An official faction is worth keeping (even if it does not manage to log the time), if it adds good things to the game.
What does feverish Jack H. mean with that "creative, productive, positive imput" stuff? Make events, request lore changes for your faction, adjust tech cells, submit updated info cards, work on the development of your faction, give opportunities of roleplay to others, in general: be a positive driving force in Disco. I am not talking about purely egoistic roleplay. I am talking about "doing the community a favour via the vehicle of your faction".
I think Disco would be a better place, if every official faction proved that they are "adding something good" to Disco every month. If e.g. a niece faction did this (e.g. 2 events, 1 productive discussion on how to re-arrange the faction diplomacy), I would not have any trouble ignoring a smaller than necessary ingame presence.
Anyway, that's what came up to my mind when I saw this thread.
Yes, current system rewards just activity, even one far from other players. Like Disco is not a multiplayer game.
1. I think rewarding player interaction instead of the time of loneliness would change our perspective and behaviour a lot. But how to measure it?
- by mining an ore for a friend?
- by buying/selling to a PoB (ofc only making a profit should count)?
- by taking/giving hull damage from a hostile player?
- a bit of all that?
2. Unfortunately, in this reward model I can't figure how to reward creating Disco's most wanted asset: a good RP. We could make some RP currency, so each player can give it and take it. But how not to abuse it?
In my eyes the tracker is the red line of server activity and the faction checks were just a mild annoyance that had to be filled out each month, both had to be filled to make sure your faction didn't fail. They are at best a formality and at worst an irritation.
Though it does make me wonder, what exactly is tracking meant to accomplish? I remember it was once used to prevent factions sitting on a single ID and preventing others from making use of it but that was effectively done away with the addition of unique faction ID's. So what does it do now apart from dictate if a faction gets to keep its official status?
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Remove tracking, bring back activity checks as a mandatory every 2-3 months in which the faction has to explain what they've done in that time. Go lenient on stripping a faction for starters by giving the punishment only to most obvious cases (i.e. 0 forum roleplay, 0 events, few ingame encounters). Getting rid of warnings and going straight for losing the official status should be considered as we're talking about a two or three times bigger period.
Right now everything else but ingame loging is disregarded, including forum RP (most commonly overlooked), quality of the time spent ingame (quality > quantity), behaviour of the faction, events, contribution to the community, sanctions, drama, etc., and although it's nearly impossible to check all of that accurately faction activity checks are the closest we have (as much as they're a pain in the arse unfortunately, which is why I propose a bigger gap between them). Strict ingame activity tracking has little value, as Jack explained.
In general is it moot that official factions are official but are gone half the month? I think this is more of an impact for house based stuff.
the real thing to find is are we shrinking or swelling "activity" is a collective effort as well. Comms and rp on the forums is a stream of new content for everyone to enjoy.. and i think that might be the only thing we should expand a bit to.
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(01-07-2017, 10:25 PM)Antonio Wrote: Remove tracking, bring back activity checks as a mandatory every 2-3 months in which the faction has to explain what they've done in that time. Go lenient on stripping a faction for starters by giving the punishment only to most obvious cases (i.e. 0 forum roleplay, 0 events, few ingame encounters). Getting rid of warnings and going straight for losing the official status should be considered as we're talking about a two or three times bigger period.
Right now everything else but ingame loging is disregarded, including forum RP (most commonly overlooked), quality of the time spent ingame (quality > quantity), behaviour of the faction, events, contribution to the community, sanctions, drama, etc., and although it's nearly impossible to check all of that accurately faction activity checks are the closest we have (as much as they're a pain in the arse unfortunately, which is why I propose a bigger gap between them). Strict ingame activity tracking has little value, as Jack explained.
I second all of this 100%. The previous monthly writeups were fantastic ways for factions to interact with the administration and development teams alike... except for the part where, for the most part, everything written in them was ignored. Once every two or three months would be much better, I think, with maybe a small grace period (1 week?) for factions with HCs/leaders who are missing (whether due to RL or out-of-the-blue bans) to get with the program.
Were the writeups reinstated, be they monthly, every two months, every three months, or whatever interval, I know that I, as a developer, would personally read through every single one, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at least some of the admin team to take 20~60 mins to read a few pages once every three months, either.
I think that the faction activity statements... these forms we filled out and then stopped... might server here well again.
But yes: Nor every month. Make it every 2 or 3 months.
I suggest categories like:
> Things your faction did to make Disco more interesting: (like events, story lines which include others, etc)
> Things that went bad: (like sanctions, drama, everything you are not proud of)
> Roleplay proof: (meaningful form rp links)
> Ingame time copy&paste
=> a post like this should quickly show how a faction works, or how it does not work.
I also think that the chance to address problems in these Faction Reports was a good idea and therefore should be kept.
> How can my faction be supported/What do we need? (devs would also not be overwhelmed and demotivated by being told every month that it has still not been fixed if we do it in cycles of like 3 months)
Most important imo is that factions PROVE that they actually participate. We have quite a few factions that simply do nothing, leaders that are apathic or simply do not care when approached for roleplay, and this will show in these reports.
The more factions we have that are active, open to roleplay, that take initiative - the better Disco will be.
(01-08-2017, 09:22 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: these forms we filled out and then stopped...
I see few flaws here my friend, in case players are filling reports and forms by themselves:
- forms are not funny to a considerable number of players, no matter if reading or writing them. You might be dreaming about a Disco where all leaders are responsible and hard-working like you. We may share the same dream, but I don't think it could or should happen in reality. Whatever you try with Disco, you must give some space for laziness and chaos.
- any player would fill a form from his/her own perspective. I would. You would.
I'd rather put my trust in any model that works automatically, even if it's worse than this fine and fair model you suggested.
I'd advocate removing all forms of checks and trackers in favour of a passive system, one that takes into account server time, forum replies, feedback and general effect on the community but has no base minimum for either.
My reasoning is if factions know how they are being judged then they can figure out ways of beating the system, however if they are being looked at as a whole it becomes easier to spot issues or apathy/laziness.
It may also be beneficial to take a harder line on factions to make sure each one has a clear purpose and weakness, be it ZoI limit, ship class or commodity dependence. Too many factions have been bloated with huge shiplines, power creep and self-sustainment to the point that their original identity has been lost. Why make a Rogue or Xeno if the Outcasts can do everything better? Why play as Police if nothing stops the Navy from doing it all?
If we want to stop Disco reverting back to a glorified ship pack and bring factions back from the brink we need to start making serious changes to something other than how factions are regulated.