(07-22-2014, 10:30 AM)Vredes Wrote: Thyrzul you are wrong as well. If battleships' count was determined by the player owners you would have had corsair babies being born in Gallia.
Who are to decide actual numbers then? Because I haven't seen anybody spit out anything more specific than "few hundreds here" and "few dozens there"...
And how in hell could corsair babies be born in Gallia, please tell me, how? And what relevance does that have to all of this we are discussing?
(07-22-2014, 10:30 AM)Vredes Wrote: Thyrzul you are wrong as well. If battleships' count was determined by the player owners you would have had corsair babies being born in Gallia.
Who are to decide actual numbers then? Because I haven't seen anybody spit out anything more specific than "few hundreds here" and "few dozens there"...
And how in hell could corsair babies be born in Gallia, please tell me, how? And what relevance does that have to all of this we are discussing?
It was related to that the Corsairs and the LN have the most caps. That would mean Corsair dominance over all of Sirius and Gallia, get it now?
So you go play with your 1000+ caps in your imagination while the RP and lore count is severely slightly lower.
(07-22-2014, 11:22 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: You seem to be so expert in lore and RP ship counts, could you share a few details with us mortals too?
I know that there is no faction that owns more than 20 top battleships. I know as well that Gallia is on the top of the economy, even over Liberty. And I don't know why liberty has been put on the first place here. But Gallia DOES NOT OWN that many ships. If they did we would be speaking french. The count is determined by the existing stationary battleships+the ones approved and tagged by the official factions.
(07-22-2014, 11:36 AM)Vredes Wrote: I know that there is no faction that owns more than 20 top battleships. I know as well that Gallia is on the top of the economy, even over Liberty.
(07-22-2014, 11:36 AM)Vredes Wrote: Gallia DOES NOT OWN that many ships.
(07-22-2014, 11:36 AM)Vredes Wrote: The count is determined by the existing stationary battleships+the ones approved and tagged by the official factions.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: About the Coalition being rated too high. I understand your concerns but the coalition didn't have its main system blown up by aliens lately. Another fact is that the Coalition managed to influence the political class in Liberty while Order or BHG have no intention to even try that. You see? Coalition is waging war on almost all fronts while the other two stick only to military ops. But you might be right.
They had its main planet bombed to dust by Phantoms (now retconned to "unnamed Coalition enemy"). They have no influence Sirius wide, heavily dependent on Red Hessians to survive - creating Omega 5 flank to save them from Corsair onslaught or the fact that Hessians are much more established than SCRA in all aspects from industrial backbone through numbers and public support to military. I dont see communist riots happening in Liberty or some unlawfuls/rebels changing their mind and embracing the Premier. They are rated too high.
Didn't know that. I've changed their position and ranking.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: Now Order:
first red text - I didn't express myself the right way... Outcast and BHG Core could threaten Order claims in the Omicrons. BHG is doing it already. OCs not so much for the reasons you stated and because they have more problems elsewhere.
You dont understand me. Outcasts have no capability to move an invasion fleet to central Omicrons without having it blown to dust by all the locals on the way through. The only threats to The Order's position in Omicrons are Core and Nomads.
All the locals being Order, BHG and Sairs? Let's not forget that OC are friends with the nomads. That would even the odds in case of a confrontation.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: 3rd red text - Hathor. The official order faction requested that the new model to be replaced replaced again by an older Hathor model. inRP this was explained that the new design was too complicated and hard to built for a faction that was almost destroyed.
INRP new Hathor never happened. We didn't liked the revision (which we never were consulted about) and therefore asked kindly to reverse to our favoured. On other hand The Order rolled in several new inventions: whole new light fighter (Onuris), revised completely one of their VHF's (Bastet mk2) and reworked their entire carrier force (Geb buff from battlecruiser to battleship class).
I don't know where I read that RP justification. Anyway... Geb is now a Battleship?! It was a light carrier, right? You're right here. I forgot about these two ships (onuris and bastet) even if they're what I fly as Order
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: Nomads too weak? How powerful would you say they are? They have wild and iseijin but I wouldn't make them as powerful as a house of Sirius. After all, the Nomads we have now in Sirius are what remained after Trent played the hero. Not that much...
Nomads rebuilt since. They "grow organic" rather than to scourge mining fields for pretty rocks. They did forged their own corner in Sirius while humanity was licking wounds. They never were capable to kill houses outright - which does not neccesarily make them weak in the first place.
(07-22-2014, 02:58 AM)PKPower Wrote: It really is and intresting lineup and I enjoyed reading through it but I think not mentioning the AI at all is a little too less credit. Sure it's not the largest faction, but they've got some economical power and two very effective combat vessels. I don't want to overrate the AI Consensus but I'd at least make them stronger than some random terrorists...
I always forget about the AIs. It's not like they have more influence than the smallest pirate factions, with all their high tech. I'll add them but I think they're weak.
Honestly if AI's were in any way a remote threat in power to any humans anywhere, that planet of theirs would be EMP bombed. I think in the future, they know about sci-fi movies and rampant droids.
Also this list is pretty pointless. Germany shouldn't be able to beat Brazil 7-1, yet they did. Something like that can happen to any of the factions in this list. 80 year war, GMG pulling tricks out of their hats etc. etc. It's not unprecedented in Freelancer. Also Gallia should be stronger.
You see Thyrzul, that's exactly the kind of discussion you'll get if you want to ask people how many BSs their faction has. EVERYONE will show off and that's why I went with the stationary ones. They may not be the best indicator but I can't think of any other. So, no, I won't ask for e-peen festival.
About the mistake with the brigands bases, yeah, I think I wrote the number of bases from a different faction.
OCs and Mollys are NAPing Gallia... so you're telling me that a pirate oriented OC or Molly would not attack a supply ship of Gallia?
About UC... it's harder to bribe a royal face than a corporate Kishiro / Samura director, right?
Thyrzul Wrote:Said lack of unity, discipline and fighting skills are what makes all these good points you listed kinda hard to exploit.
That's why they're not ranked higher. If they had those, they'd be as good as a house.
(07-22-2014, 12:02 PM)Mímir Wrote: Honestly if AI's were in any way a remote threat in power to any humans anywhere, that planet of theirs would be EMP bombed. I think in the future, they know about sci-fi movies and rampant droids.
No, it's not that easy. We're in a conflict with many factions of the Omicrons already, but Gammu is too complex to be destroyed/interrupted by EMP bombs. The biggest part of the AI infrastructure is under the surface currently, which would severely weaken such an impulse. But, since it has not been tried, it is not really sure what prevents it.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it." René Descartes
(07-22-2014, 12:05 PM)Mao Wrote: EVERYONE will show off
Guess what, I want exactly that. Everybody to show off and then give a plausible explaination for their numbers. People discussing numbers doesn't have to be an e-peen fest, on the contrary, if it can be done in a civilized manner, why not? In the end, it will be devs who decide upon the relative sizes of inRP forces, but it's better to have numbers developing and forming through a discussion, than not to at all.
EDIT: I see your issue here, but the problem isn't saying "We have X of these", but saying "We have X of these because I said so". Words remain empty if no solid basis is given for them to stand upon. What I want is people saying "We have X of these becase <insert plausible and logical explaination here>", and then discuss that with other people, hopefully sooner or later ending up in a conclusion, something everybody agrees to.
(07-22-2014, 12:05 PM)Mao Wrote: OCs and Mollys are NAPing Gallia... so you're telling me that a pirate oriented OC or Molly would not attack a supply ship of Gallia?
Unless they also want to screw with the diplomacy of their own faction besides getting a few credits richer, no, I don't think so.
(07-22-2014, 12:05 PM)Mao Wrote: About UC... it's harder to bribe a royal face than a corporate Kishiro / Samura director, right?
You pay with money to one, with (false) loyalty/allegiance to the other, in the end it's the same, giving something valuable in exchange for some other gain elsewhere. And who says noblemen doesn't like cash?