FR6 Wrote:Official player factions have the right to bounty or attack any player who is using their technology without the faction ID or permission from the official faction, regardless of their diplomacy toward the faction of the ship in question. In case of IDs with multiple official factions, gaining permission from one of the official factions would suffice, and once a technology is granted by one official faction, the other official factions should treat it as approved technology as well. In this case, factions are advised to keep a public record of their approved technologies for the purpose of better coordination with other official groups of their ID.
Here's a rather odd situation that came up today that brought up a bit of confusion for [UC]
1.) L'Ane's designation is "BT485 'L'Ane' Brigand Transport", which makes it primarily a Brigand vessel.
2.) The infocard states:
Quote:"With the formal advent of the Council and the indirect support that movement granted, the Brigands and Union Corse were suddenly freed to produce vessel capable of ferrying much more ambitious quantities of goods, both illicit and mundane, amongst their bases and construction sites.
Well armed and armored, the sleek lines of the l'Ane have caught the eye of many a shipping captain on more legitimate sides of the fence, resulting in the vessel finding itself in the hands of more than one Council pilot hard pressed to secure a more legitimate train."
Which means that both the Brigand and the Corse produce it (therefore sharing the technology), and that they sometimes lease a ship or two there to their friends.
3.) It's tech cell is "Generic Gallia Unlawful", not unlike the situation of the Sirian P-tran and P-train within Sirius, former Liberty Rogue designs which's production was handed over the Unlawfuls in generation.
Who has the right to FR6, here?
A) Only the Brigands? The designation of the shipline say it is a Brigand ship.
B) Both the Brigands and the Corse, within the parameters of 'In case of IDs with multiple official factions'? They both produce the vessel, after all. (This in particular would be handy to know for the Rogue/Molly shipline as well, probably)
C) Neither and consider the vessel like a Gallic version of the P-train and the P-trans? This would be the 'wrong' option in my opinion, since unlike the P-train and P-trans, the Brigands and Corses reserve themselves the right of their production.
I'd like to point out the following Factions that are allowed to fly the L'ane
Gallic Junkers
Unione Corse
The Council
Gallic Brigands
The Maquis
Junker Marauders (75% Nerf)
Freelancer (75% Nerf)
Pirate (75% Nerf)
On these grounds the vessel should be considered as your option "C". As it is easily comparable to the P-train of Sirius
And for the record here is the breakdown of the Factions that are allowed to fly the P-Train
Bretonia Privateers
Gaians
Mollys
Hogosha
Farmers Allance
Blood Dragons
Golden Chrysanthemums
Hellfire Legion
Lane Hackers
Liberty Rogues
Xenos
Bundschuh
LWB
Red Hessians
Unioners
Junkers
Coalitions
Corsairs
Outcasts
IND
RoS
Freelancer
Miner
Pirate
Junker Marauders
SCRA
101st
The common factor is that the p-train is assumed to be available to all unlawful and semi-lawful organizations though Siruis. The L'ane is Gallia's version, with multiple blueprints and build sights throughout the Kingdom. Which would allow the vessel to be available to all unlawful and semi-lawful organizations of Gallia. However I would like to point out another issue to both our arguments; the ship itself isn't sold on a single UC base.
Planet Marne, Gallic Brigands
Narbonne Base, Gallic Brigands
Avon Hideout, The Maquis
Caussade Depot, The Maquis
Additionally the vessel isn't sold on any Council, Gallic Junker stations. On these grounds it could be assumed then that the L'ane is a vessel built and sold by the Maquis and Gallic Brigands as a for profit vessel to the other listed factions.
(08-15-2014, 06:22 AM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: I'd like to point out the following Factions that are allowed to fly the L'ane
Gallic Junkers
Unione Corse
The Council
Gallic Brigands
The Maquis
Junker Marauders (75% Nerf)
Freelancer (75% Nerf)
Pirate (75% Nerf)
On these grounds the vessel should be considered as your option "C". As it is easily comparable to the P-train of Sirius
The common factor is that the p-train is assumed to be available to all unlawful and semi-lawful organizations though Siruis. The L'ane is Gallia's version, with multiple blueprints and build sights throughout the Kingdom. Which would allow the vessel to be available to all unlawful and semi-lawful organizations of Gallia. However I would like to point out another issue to both our arguments; the ship itself isn't sold on a single UC base.
Planet Marne, Gallic Brigands
Narbonne Base, Gallic Brigands
Avon Hideout, The Maquis
Caussade Depot, The Maquis
Additionally the vessel isn't sold on any Council, Gallic Junker stations. On these grounds it could be assumed then that the L'ane is a vessel built and sold by the Maquis and Gallic Brigands as a for profit vessel to the other listed factions.
"with multiple blueprints and build sights throughout the Kingdom":
But that's the thing, the very description of the ship itself says otherwise. If this is the case, the ship should lose it's Gallic Brigand designation in its description and just be turned into a generic ship.
In fact, back when I was leading LaBrise, I had to request for "L'Ane" cell to be created (which is what the Cell itself was called before .87, even). I find it odd that they modify the cell afterwards without modifying the ship.
" On these grounds it could be assumed then that the L'ane is a vessel built and sold by the Maquis and Gallic Brigands":
It's understandable that they're sold on Maquis bases, as the Maquis and the Corse have a close cooperation and are close allies. The ship is also deemed as Unlawful, so for the Corse, as Quasi-Lawfuls, selling them themselves could be an issue. It's probably for mutually beneficial reasons that the Maquis sell them on the behalf of the Corse.
" it could be assumed":
But there's nothing to be really assumed when the infocard of the ship already states its roleplay availability.
EDIT: You can buy Bounty Hunter ships on Houston, but the LPI certainly doesn't produce it. GRN snubs are sold on GRP bases as well. Plenty of examples like this on Disco.
EDIT2: Equipment placement in Gallia is also really, really faulty as well, so it's not really a basis for anything. Most bases don't have AU VIII to sell, and you actually have to go out of Gallia to get Nukes and Ripper mine launchers. Bases that sell bombers don't sell Hellfire rocket pods. Bases that sell GBs don't always sell GB weapons. Bases that sell no ships yet sale capital ship weaponry. Or how Asco torps were unavailable on most Brigand bases for a looong while.
See you are attempting to argue that the infocard is the end all say all of the ship. Where I am saying the tech sells and sell points of the ship is the end all say all. So unfortunately this is only an endless cycle of who's right and what not.
At the end of the day nothing you have said convinces me that [UC] has an inRP reason to claim the L'ane as their own tech. And you will claim otherwise. I guess we should both sit here and wait for and Admin or a Dev to wonder over.
(08-15-2014, 06:44 AM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: See you are attempting to argue that the infocard is the end all say all of the ship. Where I am saying the tech sells and sell points of the ship is the end all say all. So unfortunately this is only an endless cycle of who's right and what not.
At the end of the day nothing you have said convinces me that [UC] has an inRP reason to claim the L'ane as their own tech. And you will claim otherwise. I guess we should both sit here and wait for and Admin or a Dev to wonder over.
(08-15-2014, 06:48 AM)Sabre Wrote: or just RP about it.
yeah, hows that summit going by the way? Still stalled? See my problem. I was not in the mood to spend 6 months waiting around to explain the ship when I could simply opt to explain it after I had it. Its on the [UC] to ask around, maybe they talk to me, maybe they just put a bounty on me, I don't know. And I have a feeling [UC] won't proceed until some green or yellow clears up the confusion
I might be wrong, but I think it being classified as 'generic gallia unlawful' makes it impossible to use the FR6 in this case. It's like open (black) market.
That does not invalidate the RP around it, of course.