(10-15-2014, 08:32 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: You should state that zoners ARE allowed to engage people who have engaged in piracy or hostility towards them
Yes and soon we will be having Zoners hunting everyone everywhere because someone was mean to them.
Well, from reading some of the posts it seems like a good solution would be to remove caps from the Zoner ship line. It will make fewer new indie players choose the Zoner ID.
(10-15-2014, 08:32 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: You should state that zoners ARE allowed to engage people who have engaged in piracy or hostility towards them
Yes and soon we will be having Zoners hunting everyone everywhere because someone was mean to them.
That is not what being asked here, What is being asked here is to allow zoners to do something before that blade cutts off their heads - elementary, basic human reaction, and a right If i may add - And in no way should it be a violation of any kind. You show me a faction who is willing to stand by, butchered - flamed and damned both in-game and in-forums ( A faction of new people especaily ), threatened, reported and sanctioned - and are completely fine with it - and I'll stop writing right now, But I won't hold my breath, and I wish you luck trying to find one.
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I suggest a full revamp of the Zoner ID. The new one would read somewhat like this:
Code:
Zoners are civilians who have rejected house rule. They are usually isolationists, and prefer to live outside of house borders, unburdened by house laws. They generally welcome both lawful and unlawful factions, trading freely between them. Zoners avoid conflict when possible, however this does not exempt Zoners from piracy by many unlawful factions.
Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship, anywhere.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
(10-16-2014, 03:37 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: That is not what being asked here, What is being asked here is to allow zoners to do something before that blade cutts off their heads - elementary, basic human reaction, and a right If i may add - And in no way should it be a violation of any kind. You show me a faction who is willing to stand by, butchered - flamed and damned both in-game and in-forums ( A faction of new people especaily ), threatened, reported and sanctioned - and are completely fine with it - and I'll stop writing right now, But I won't hold my breath, and I wish you luck trying to find one.
It basicly means that everytime the Zoners encounter a pirate of any sort they engage it before the pirate, that is desperately trying to CD it and write a demand at the same time to shoot him in the head first.
Sorry but the Zoners should deal with pirates with words convincing them its not good to pirate them. In general traders should be encouraged dealing with pirates with words too and not making traders into hunters everyone is afraid of. We need more pirates, more pirates mean more lawfuls who hunt them, not traders. Everyone should play his role.
(10-16-2014, 03:37 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: That is not what being asked here, What is being asked here is to allow zoners to do something before that blade cutts off their heads - elementary, basic human reaction, and a right If i may add - And in no way should it be a violation of any kind. You show me a faction who is willing to stand by, butchered - flamed and damned both in-game and in-forums ( A faction of new people especaily ), threatened, reported and sanctioned - and are completely fine with it - and I'll stop writing right now, But I won't hold my breath, and I wish you luck trying to find one.
It basicly means that everytime the Zoners encounter a pirate of any sort they engage it before the pirate, that is desperately trying to CD it and write a demand at the same time to shoot him in the head first.
Sorry but the Zoners should deal with pirates with words convincing them its not good to pirate them.
No, It only means what you want it to mean because you already in advance decide how things will play out - according to your view point, Add to that - You sure do like to ignore some of my remarks to prove your point - but it doesn't make them valid. This is not about zoners doing things such as these, but rather doing these things when they have guns pointed at their heads. Do you need any more help in trying to understand this Idea or have you finaly got it? I'm a little bit insulted by that, You seem to focus only on the negetive side of things - which is something of a tradition around here. If you were to treat quasi-lawfuls ( especaily zoners ) in this new way, We would have way more people on the server - but perhaps more moderation for you - Is that negetive? I am also very keen to know how you decided in advance that zoners are not humans and therfor they have no social or criticial thinking when it comes to life and death - and for one reason or another, talking is their best solution - because they are handicapped by invisible forces who will take away their guns if they do what any sane person would do in a hostile situation.
All I wanted to say is that the Zoners didnt make friends or people taking them neutral by shooting, but with making agreements or compromises so they will avoid any hostilities from the said group or individuals.
And with this Im also out of this discussion.
Tel, it's not a roleplay issue. We all agree that it is reasonable to assume that most human beings can remember what happened the day before.
This is a question of gameplay and balance. If we were allowed to seek vengeance rather than self-defence, people would keep long lists and you'd have to screen everything all the time, in case someone files a sanction at some point because he can't remember pew'ing you in the first place when you seek out your grand vengeance. It would be a nightmare for admins. Now imagine pirates doing the same, remembering who got away without paying, and seeking vengeance when they meet next time, upping the fee.
It would spiral out of control right from the get-go. While I applaud the idea for the added realism, it could simply not work in Disco for extremely obvious reasons.
(10-16-2014, 03:59 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: No, It only means what you want it to mean because you already in advance decide how things will play out - according to your view point, Add to that - You sure do like to ignore some of my remarks to prove your point - but it doesn't make them valid. This is not about zoners doing things such as these, but rather doing these things when they have guns pointed at their heads. Do you need any more help in trying to understand this Idea or have you finaly got it? I'm a little bit insulted by that, You seem to focus only on the negetive side of things - which is something of a tradition around here. If you were to treat quasi-lawfuls ( especaily zoners ) in this new way, We would have way more people on the server - but perhaps more moderation for you - Is that negetive? I am also very keen to know how you decided in advance that zoners are not humans and therfor they have no social or criticial thinking when it comes to life and death - and for one reason or another, talking is their best solution - because they are handicapped by invisible forces who will take away their guns if they do what any sane person would do in a hostile situation.
You still argue for this with inRP arguments, even though it has been stated multiple times that the Zoner ID has to be limited for ooRP reasons. Every ID needs its advantages and disadvantages. The usual ID may engage a few people, may maybe pirate or fine a few people and may do all of that only in a certain area, while also being restricted to maybe snubs and gunboats. The Zoner ID already allows all ships up to the biggest Battleships, which is a big plus to it. Then it also has no real ZOI limitation like Order or Core Caps and may use 5kers. And now you even want it to be able to engage preemptively. That makes no sense. Either you limit the shipline and allow a certain way of engaging enemies or you keep the shipline and the current only-selfdefense rule. You can't have all perks on one ID or all other IDs are in a disadvantage and will lose players.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it." René Descartes