I am asking for an Admin official response to this, please.
We have a Zoner base. I know that means not to go starting fights for the heck of it.
We have known pirates hanging out in the star system we occupy (Omega9). There is nothing except jump holes and 2 PoBs in the system. It isn't even a good mining zone.
Our bounty thread has been deleted completely from the forum, even though there are other, older, bounties posted about these people by official factions.
When is it acceptable for us, singly and collectively, to take action against these pirates? I am not talking about hunting pirates in general; I want to know when we can act against people that are trolling our base.
This is not a matter of "revenge". This is a matter of when is it acceptable for us to act against KNOWN PIRATES, people that have previously pirated members of our clan (can't call it a faction, it is not official).
Due to recent circumstances, I really would like this answered unambiguously.
We all have an Angelic and a Demonic side. Use of them determines good or evil in the end.
You are going to have to deal with pirates just like every other Zoner ID'd player does. The Zoner ID states that self defense is basically your only recourse. You must stay within the limits of your ID. You are not an official faction, so you don't have FR5 rights.
Aggressive Zoners, if that's what you are seeking, are an impossibility due to the ID restrictions.
Garret, They should defend themselves against people who have made previous hostilities toward them and you should not be giving them the advantage by holding these zoners to ridicilous status. I'm sure you would agree to that, despite the fact that they are zoners. Self-defense can also be pre - emtive defense.
Just to help you by providing some possible RP solutions and explain:
As unofficial faction/group, you can´t have bounty board, unless some official faction will sponsor it, that´s why it was deleted I guess. However you are allowed to make individual bounty/bounties here so if you have problem with one or two pirates, this could be solution for you.
Your other option is get someone as your escort. Recently I saw the [FL-ER] group doing this and they seem to be quite active, so maybe you can hire them to help you.
Third but complicated option is that you try to contact official zoner factions, tell them who you have problems with, and maybe they will FR5 them for pirating fellow zoners what will make their life little more complicated as there is not much places for pirate IDs to dock and this will reduce them significantly.
(10-16-2014, 11:08 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: You are going to have to deal with pirates just like every other Zoner ID'd player does. The Zoner ID states that self defense is basically your only recourse. You must stay within the limits of your ID. You are not an official faction, so you don't have FR5 rights.
Aggressive Zoners, if that's what you are seeking, are an impossibility due to the ID restrictions.
I am really not attempting to be a jerk, but tell me what you mean by self defense. If that means that we need to wait until they attack us every time, then you are holding us to an unrealistic standard of behavior. This would be the equivalent of having someone murder your wife, then seeing them walk toward your daughter the next day and having to wait until they attack her before you can act.
Additionally, I still want clarification on when it is acceptable for us to act on other people's behalf. Given that there have been sanctions issued, I think that we deserve more of an answer than, "Follow your ID."
I don't have all of the details, but that doesn't seem to have worked last time. If I sound testy, it probably has something to do with feeling like I just got the brush off.
We all have an Angelic and a Demonic side. Use of them determines good or evil in the end.
I am in agreement with Zen. Self-defense should encompass defense of their own space against aggressors. In this case, anyone who comes into a system that is within their ZOI and starts popping their members/allies should be considered actively hostile and thus would fall within the bounds of "self defense."
__________________________________ I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again... The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
(10-16-2014, 11:08 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: You are going to have to deal with pirates just like every other Zoner ID'd player does. The Zoner ID states that self defense is basically your only recourse. You must stay within the limits of your ID. You are not an official faction, so you don't have FR5 rights.
Aggressive Zoners, if that's what you are seeking, are an impossibility due to the ID restrictions.
I am really not attempting to be a jerk, but tell me what you mean by self defense. If that means that we need to wait until they attack us every time, then you are holding us to an unrealistic standard of behavior. This would be the equivalent of having someone murder your wife, then seeing them walk toward your daughter the next day and having to wait until they attack her before you can act.
Additionally, I still want clarification on when it is acceptable for us to act on other people's behalf. Given that there have been sanctions issued, I think that we deserve more of an answer than, "Follow your ID."
I don't have all of the details, but that doesn't seem to have worked last time. If I sound testy, it probably has something to do with feeling like I just got the brush off.
Don't mean to be brushing you off, it's just the fact the Admins have been dealing with aggressive Zoners for quite some time now. Defending yourself against a personal attack/base attack as it happens is one thing. Targeting players who may have attacked you/pirated you in a previous encounter, is acting outside your ID and will leave you sanctioned.
We cannot give you permission, as Zoners, to actively go after players that have pirated you in the past.
(10-16-2014, 11:45 PM)FeralCallsign Wrote: I am in agreement with Zen. Self-defense should encompass defense of their own space against aggressors. In this case, anyone who comes into a system that is within their ZOI and starts popping their members/allies should be considered actively hostile and thus would fall within the bounds of "self defense."
Nobody deny their right to self-defense or defense members. As their ID says:
"Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases."
The issue here is if they can attack first when they meet another time and pirate is not aggresive on sight this time.