People who whine about this runing their fun are just looking for excuses to keep this lamest feature in-game. You want to play with friends? Fine. Fly through the lanes with your friends.
Fighting a pirate with your buddies is even more fun that sitting on your asses while waiting for the jump.
Now we can pirate you for those 2 mil. Oh, wait. Your friends Will be there too. I need to bring my friends to help me pirate.
(10-23-2014, 07:29 PM)Strichev Wrote: It's a good decision.
People who whine about this runing their fun are just looking for excuses to keep this lamest feature in-game. You want to play with friends? Fine. Fly through the lanes with your friends.
Fighting a pirate with your buddies is even more fun that sitting on your asses while waiting for the jump.
Now we can pirate you for those 2 mil. Oh, wait. Your friends Will be there too. I need to bring my friends to help me pirate.
gg
activity on the lanes again.
So, let me see if I can summarize the posts since this morning.
Ganking traders is the foundation of the server. If traders aren't available to be victims, then the pirate population goes down or, worse, being in truth, a small star nation, attacks other star nations. After all, most of the factions are sufficiently large to be able to develop their own ship designs, a process in the current day that runs to hundreds of billions of dollars per design.
Traders get nothing from this except a loss of cash. Pirates, as a class of players, don't care about the other party, they only want people to rob. As an example, we have the person I am quoting above, who, not satisfied with being a bastard in character, is offensive and abuses everyone who does not share his position on the forums.
Next, if we don't have pirates, the lawful factions, which I have NEVER personally seen aid a trader, have nothing to do. I will freely admit that I do not fly much in Rheinland and Kusari so I cannot accurately assess their responses. That being said, at least in Bretonia and Liberty, the Lawfuls seem Far more interested in apprehending smugglers or combatting military forces than hunting pirates.
I would add that, in spite of jump trading existing, even those that have the capability (for the record, I, personally, do not) don't use it every time. It is not always cost effective. You also ignore the fact that surveying requires that you go to the place you eventually want to jump to.
After all of that, for reasons that are still vague, it is a bad thing for traders to make a lot of money. It corrupts an economy that only exists nebulously. We don't pay for fuel or maintenance in routine operations, there is an infinite supply of commodities and an unlimited availability of weapons, ship enhancements and ships of all classes. I suppose it is possible to argue that the prevalence of warships could be construed as an economic condition, but the argument makes for a flimsy defense in limiting TRADERS.
In some fashion which I have yet to comprehend, a person using legitimate in game means to become more affluent is wrong, but someone that steals for a living is cherished. In effect, you want to punish the people that, by your own statements, are critical to the entire system's functioning for trying to enjoy themselves.
As a final thought, I would remind you all of a thread last week where I was arguing about Zoners and the right to self defense. If pirates are in such dire straights, why would I be wasting time putting up a thread about defending myself against pirate attacks?
We all have an Angelic and a Demonic side. Use of them determines good or evil in the end.
(10-23-2014, 11:08 PM)Chrystoph Wrote: So, let me see if I can summarize the posts since this morning.
Ganking traders is the foundation of the server. If traders aren't available to be victims, then the pirate population goes down or, worse, being in truth, a small star nation, attacks other star nations. After all, most of the factions are sufficiently large to be able to develop their own ship designs, a process in the current day that runs to hundreds of billions of dollars per design.
Traders get nothing from this except a loss of cash. Pirates, as a class of players, don't care about the other party, they only want people to rob. As an example, we have the person I am quoting above, who, not satisfied with being a bastard in character, is offensive and abuses everyone who does not share his position on the forums.
Next, if we don't have pirates, the lawful factions, which I have NEVER personally seen aid a trader, have nothing to do. I will freely admit that I do not fly much in Rheinland and Kusari so I cannot accurately assess their responses. That being said, at least in Bretonia and Liberty, the Lawfuls seem Far more interested in apprehending smugglers or combatting military forces than hunting pirates.
I would add that, in spite of jump trading existing, even those that have the capability (for the record, I, personally, do not) don't use it every time. It is not always cost effective. You also ignore the fact that surveying requires that you go to the place you eventually want to jump to.
After all of that, for reasons that are still vague, it is a bad thing for traders to make a lot of money. It corrupts an economy that only exists nebulously. We don't pay for fuel or maintenance in routine operations, there is an infinite supply of commodities and an unlimited availability of weapons, ship enhancements and ships of all classes. I suppose it is possible to argue that the prevalence of warships could be construed as an economic condition, but the argument makes for a flimsy defense in limiting TRADERS.
In some fashion which I have yet to comprehend, a person using legitimate in game means to become more affluent is wrong, but someone that steals for a living is cherished. In effect, you want to punish the people that, by your own statements, are critical to the entire system's functioning for trying to enjoy themselves.
As a final thought, I would remind you all of a thread last week where I was arguing about Zoners and the right to self defense. If pirates are in such dire straights, why would I be wasting time putting up a thread about defending myself against pirate attacks?
I'm sorry that you are unhappy with the restrictions on jumptrading. To be honest, I voted for complete removal of jumptrading for all transports, but then was talked down from that stance to see if this limited application might work better. In my mind, I think military ships should be the only ones allowed to jump. The reason being, is that they normally jump toward interaction, not away from it.
I'm unconvinced that trade jumping is healthy for the server. Credits are not greater than interaction. The reward is greater when it's associated with risk. There is little to no risk with jumptrading. We might as well just start allowing players access to the .addcash command. It would be nearly the same. (I'm trying to envision a group of players all logging in at the same time. One of them speaks up and says, "Okay everyone, Type .addcash command in your communication array...now. Alright, now on the count of three everyone press enter. One...Two...Three... Enter. Good job everyone. Way to avoid those nasty pirates and potential ganks on us poor traders. Should we turn in now, or do you want to go another round?")
As I type this, I realize even more the similarities between that scenario and jumptrading. It might be fun to make easy credits, but it's even more fun to outwit/outmaneuver a Lane Hacker or Liberty Rogue. It's more fun to run across a K'hara or Wilde player as they try to fill your mind with some alien vision. It's more fun forcing an LPI officer to put down his donut and escort you safely out of Liberty space. Its more fun taking a jumpgate to the next system, hoping that Xeno you saw on long range scanners isn't waiting for you on the other side. When you finally do make it to your destination, which is the more rewarding for you and for other players on this server? Making your way through all that risk successfully, maybe a little poorer, or simply beaming over to the next trade destination bypassing it entirely, yet a little richer?
Every role is critical for this server. Yet the role is worthless to this server if it can't interact with those that might oppose them. That is true for Military, Unlawfuls, and Traders. Otherwise, why not just create your own server and jumptrade to your heart's content. Frankly, I'd get bored fairly quickly.
(10-24-2014, 02:05 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote: In my mind, I think military ships should be the only ones allowed to jump. The reason being, is that they normally jump toward interaction, not away from it.
This is bogus.
The only time you ever see jumpdrives used outside of jumptrading, is people jumping away from fights to avoid giving away blues.
Never once have I seen used them in any other way, except to jump to Omicron-99 to farm remains, and then jump away as soon as nom players come in and start trying to interact.
Jump drives aren't used for their "intended purpose." A new reason to use them has sprung up, and its being hammered into the ground.
I'm not defending jumptrading here, I'm usually not 100% for it myself, but the devices now have a use, and all I see is people screaming "NOT INTENDED PURPOSE" when absolutely nobody uses them the way they were "intended."
At least they were being used at all for something beyond denying interaction.
And before people start screaming that Congress jumptrades have no interaction, please tell me how: A group of friends interacting and RPing with eachother in a large group, is superior roleplay to the individuals being approached by a random pirate that says nothing beyond: " Junker, pay 2 mil or die", receiving their money, and flying off without a word. Because despite what people like to say, that is all that happens.
[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/
A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.
When jump drives, scanners & stuff first came out I was part of the band wagon of wanting to try out the new toys. Bases I was invested in made them and I brokered sales of the shiny new toys. Anyway, just wanted to lend a bit of perspective from my own point of view.
Interactions occur when you desire them and make them happen. In other words, If you want to make an interaction happen, it will happen at some point. Those who try to avoid it may be successful for a time but not always. Same for a trader going through the lanes getting hit by 5 different pirates from Texas to California and sometimes making it all the way to New London without any contact.
When the toys came out I found numerous ways to gain interaction with them and not necessarily by making use of the toys themselves.
* I invested in POBs to make the items and role played a broker providing speedy service as well as delivery.
* Deliveries were done in ship same as any other trader and considering the value of the cargo I treated each as a smuggling run and trying to out wit and out fly police and pirates. Excitement runs high when a couple of items in your cargo hold are worth 1-2 billion in sales.
* Jump trading. Yep, primary topic here. Whether for base building, base supply, toy construction, or simply profit, being a jump trader involves lots of interaction with the other ships in the party.
* Police/Navy (Law Enforcement) : Most of the houses restricted jumping, required licenses, registered ships, specific *jump zones*, and such. Dunno about the rest of Sirius but in Kusari I was constantly looking for jump traders on my KNF as well as on my BDS ships. In Bretonia a freelancer character of mine was hired by both BPA and BIS to search out illegal jumpers. My task was to take images, scan ID's and cargo and report back. At times I even used a cloaked liner with a docking module allowing BPA ships to undock in the middle of an operation, kick ass and take names. Remembering that this happening was following closely on the heels of the IC/Rheinland fallout, any corporation caught red handed by house police genuinely had something to worry about.
* Piracy: I never had any major issues with being the pirate and jump traders. Where jump traders want to go is limited to just a few points in most systems. It's no different really than sitting on a lane waiting for a trader to come by. In fact, lane sitting is (to me) more boring than anything else. My pirates were hungry, so my pirates went to where the dinner was. It's really not such a hard thing to do but to sit and wait at a likely jump spot and target the jumpers as soon as they arrive. I did it with Mollys very often especially during the construction of the Bretonian base in Omega 3. Barges would get jumped into either O3 or Cambridge. Once the coords were set people used the same ones. Lucky for piracy, they often shared their coordinates with others. Pirating a trader for 2 mil is old after a while. Pirating a couple barges with gunboat and battleship support is WAY more fun!
* Bounty hunting: Yep, bounties were issued for various jumping traders. Flying as an independent merc as well as with the Reavers, we hunted and pewpew'd jumping traders for fun and profit.
* Escorts: I often participated as a freelancer escort hired to help protect jumpers from pirates and house navies. In certain locations my job was to draw attention away from police/naval units so that the jumpers could get away or do their thing. One of my freelancers had such negative reps a pirate ID was hardly a change at all.
Thus, limiting cargo size or not limiting cargo size is irrelevant in my view. If I'm a trader and I want ore I go looking for a miner, I don't wait for the miner to come to me. If I'm a pirate, and the lanes re empty I go looking for where the action is. I enjoy role playing in game far more than role playing on the forum so I create my own opportunities for interaction by using what is available to me in the game.
As a pirate, a mercenary, escort, police, navy, or sales/business woman, I have very little problem finding interaction on the server, even when the server population is 16-30 instead of 198.
I wish to remind all those that say JDs should only fit military purposes, if you don't jump a transport with you when you spam your fleet out of nowhere, how are you gonna be fueled out of there?
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(10-24-2014, 05:15 AM)Gypsie Skripto Wrote: I wish to remind all those that say JDs should only fit military purposes, if you don't jump a transport with you when you spam your fleet out of nowhere, how are you gonna be fueled out of there?
That's still military purposes. You can jump military transports with military IDs ([LN]-LLS for example), for instance.
(note: I'm not actually arguing for or against this)
(10-24-2014, 02:29 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Good point Scourge. You might have convinced me to remove them entirely.
I'm sorry to bother you but have you ever jumped with a convoy before? Or jumped at all? With anything? Like... outside of the testing server.
I just want a yes or no. I dont need to know "no because its stupid."
There are at least 20 people that actually care about jumping.
OH HEY that is 2/3 of the game population now.