I try to remain a littlebit in the shadows and keep everyone satisfied. The same goes with Kruger| a faction I try to run along with Mihailo. I think every faction has its ups and downs, but to always point fingers to your faction or any other faction is never fun. That is the only dislike I have found in that topic where this feedback belongs too. It even saddens me more it even resumes here with Omicega. I hope that the pointing fingers can be stopped.. Maybe this could be a good thing to wish for the new year to come?
Say it yourself, it is never fun to get anything pointed to any faction you play, are member of or even leading. I think Pavel can agree with me, as DHC was mentioned too. And knowing some people here, it gives me a fair knowledge that there has been a lot of skype fights with throwing dirt to each other too.
Probably stems from everyone assuming they are correct and everyone else wrong. Means the Admins are always wrong and therefore can be **** upon. “Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.” is a famous C.S. Lewis quote and seems to be the exact opposite of what may loophole hunting word twisting players utilise as their moral backstop.
(12-31-2014, 04:55 PM)Omicega Wrote: The spirit of the discussion wasn't so bad. There are a lot of awkward ID issues around at the minute - namely the ton of "cannot ally with lawfuls/unlawfuls/quasilawfuls except XYZ" that hampers a ton of unlawful/quasilawful factions.
I mean yeah - in this case it was Kruger acting up again - but in a general sense, a ton of IDs have a lot of room for improvement.
Kruger acting up again ? Whether true or not, neither thread was the place for this - Tunicle
I dont remember those two characters were kruger ID'd were did you saw the Kruger ID on them ? Weren't those the GMG ID'd ?
Oh yes now i remember you like pointing fingers on only one faction a Kruger in this case completely ignoring the fact that those players are not just in Kruger but few other factions aswell 101'st [RM] RFP| Samura| and few others i'm curious if the players were on the GMG characters and they also have membership in many other factions and yet they didn't breaked any rule how come you and few of your budies always point finger at kruger ? Whether pertineant or not, neither thread was the place for this, use the other avenues that are open. Either via forum or talk to Admin. Not forgetting of course that Admins post must discussion on their own forum and have a range of tools to check chats, ID's etc. - Tunicle
For me Case is here obvious and i have only one message for you and your friends..... Leave us alone !!! You are masters of your own destiny with this one. If you are abiding by the community rules then any attacks at you will be ultimately rooted out as malicious.
Any actions where you are breaking rules will results in action. remember everyone here is playing by consent, the consent of the whole community. The rules, need for Admins etc. are only to try and avoid favoritism and bullying by small segments of the community. - Tunicle
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I try to keep candid when talking about these things, rather than dancing obsequiously around the issue. When both of you, too, feel like doing the community a service and cutting the crap - so to speak - feel free to give me a call. You'll find it can be rather refreshing.
There's a lot more I'd like to say, but in the interests of not having all my posts reported and winding up with more forum issues when things get a little too truthful and hard-hitting for certain people, I think I'll go do something else for now. Say it without vitriol and people will take notice, say it with rancor and people take umbrage, then they drag in Admins and fuel the cycle which has brought the community to where it appears to be. Unhappy and using each other as an Aunt Sally rather than trying to improve collectively - Tunicle
I think that, as an experiment, it was good. Much less qq and hate than most discussions. Perhaps it could be repeated other times, as long as we keep civil, what I think it mostly was.
But I would like to point something: when it is related to rules and IDs interpretation, I think it would be best to admins to "rule" it, and only open a discussion when there is doubt between you. Like judges ruling about a law. They decide because (theoreticaly) they are more prepared and experienced to interpret the laws.
In any other subject than the rules, this kind of iniciative is welcome, in my view.
I have this feeling that people naturally take sides without knowing why, but in addition fight for it with a lot of conviction. This can be demonstrated by using a different ID - Zoners. Yeah, can you feel that? One word and hell breaks loose, because the faction that they disapprove off must always be shut.
I believe part of the problem lay in the division of responsibilities.
The community needs to be involved in where the server is going. Call this plot work. Rules will evolve out of that, but they will be rules for situations, much like the GMG example.
At the risk of starting flameage, everyone needs to be able to make input on that, not just the "official" factions. The officials may have more weight (although from what I perceive, they are a minority of the numerical player base), but the input of the indies should not be ignored just because they are not part of the "official" crowd.
The development and admin teams are responsible for the story line and for maintaining the overall environment. Similar to a pen and paper gaming environment, the players get to decide what they want to do, and the game masters determine if and how they can do it.
I learned that "a fine" means you did something illegal, and doesn't also include tolls, which I didn't know. What I still don't know is what is illegal and who decides it, and now the thread is locked so I cant ask it, and don't know the solution. Rules are on server/ID arrived at via many inputs and are definitive. Laws are inRP written by house/government linked to official factions. Situation as stands are the tolling is lawbreak and thus rulebreak.Maybe the answer is somewhere in the thread, but ?? it's 7 pages long. Would have been nice if there was a sort of definitive answer at the top or end of the thread. My conclusions to your experiment are:
1. It's good to discuss these things in the open because people are corrected in their misconceptions.
2. It's bad to lock these things because questions are left unanswered or unresolved. Unfortunately it happened again here. Not sure why you feel this is a justified comment when you have implied you did not read the thread?
3. People start making assumptions about thinly veiled agendas this, between the lines agendas that, and talk about how *insert disliked faction* would do bad stuff if it was like that, which does nothing for resolving these issue.
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Nice thread, too bad I missed it, I'm sure I'd have made some responces. Most got it right about the GMG| faction intentionally not making it a law to traverse GMG space. When I co founded and ran GMG| it was intentional on our part to increase trader flow in our space and protect them. This even included the slaughter of allied BD ID'd indies pirating the lanes using Naha as a base of operations and as such our GMG ID will allow us to do so to them while they can't touch us for this specific kind of situation. GMG is publicly a lawful group, they may be grey and shady on the inside but outwardly and to the public they are a lawful organization. It doesn't make sense for GMG to stop any ship movement whatsoever, the more ships move the more fuel needed the more money GMG makes. GMG hates Kruger and Samura, both use their own limited source of H-fuel, both have tried to get our fuel be it through force or subtlety.
Yes GMG| could make Sigma liscences. Not sure why some argue they couldn't or that some house will roflstomp them. I'm even more surprised that such statements came from memebers who were around when all of Rheinland was forbidden from entering Sigmas with the sole exception of ALG. Every other Rheinland ship, even military was kill on sight. And they kept to their end. It was us player factions who began the RP and slow process of opening those borders. Chiefly through a growing relationship with RepEx shipping and here we are today with the borders open.
To the poor dude who was being ignored trying to shout Sig 13 didn't belong to GMG. Sorry, guy, but if you look at the lore of every Disco mod and the original Vanilla 1.0 you will see that GMG always owned Sig 13 in it's entirety and fought hard for that ownership. Helgoland and Yanagi only existed at GMG permission and was always temporary. Once cleaned up the occupants were shipped out back to their homes in Rheinland, Junkers moved on to other places and GMG is occupying the location. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost to make Sig 13 GMG space. Hundreds of thousands of more lives is the price GMG wants to relieve 13 from it's hands. I await the house who says he has the currency to come pay for it. Every house does but it's a spectacular PR issue with their own populations as Rheinland found out in the two centuries following their failure. To eliminate that war and Rheinland's failure is to also eliminate much of rheinlands lore and RP and consequentially about half the factions no longer would exist as they were birthed from the backlash of Rheinland's failure.
There is precedent for tolls and system lockdowns. They have happened in GMG's past as well as in GMG|'s past. But as people point out, there simply isn't any going on atm. No wars, no embargoes, no big bad enemies at GMG's doorstep. It's currently a golden era for them and so the gates are open, the lanes are operating and trade is flowing. GMG won't stop that till given a reason nor would GMG|. Heck even if their neighbours once again try and pull off one of their own embargoes to prevent the fuel from reaching another house GMG|/GMG will make deals with all local unlawfuls to smuggle the fuel through. Ie: they don't impede traffic, they encourage traffic.
It's not just the GMG ID that indies will acquire ideas that GMG stop traders from entering GMG space, rheinland in particular, it's in the lore.......but that lore is old history and it's been updated. The gates have been open for yrs and the lanes are free to use for all traffic with even the expectation of protection (so please kick GMG| in the ass and get them active XD)
I generally won't enter the fray on discussions because 9 time outta 10 my thoughts were written by someone else in a better way. However it did make me as a player feel better to know that the Admin Team was allowing discussion to take place on the forums rather than hard to follow skype chats, as risky as that can be with regards to ooRP hate and flames