(12-16-2015, 03:29 PM)Salmin Wrote: Here are not a thread about "Delete, SRP etc". This is thread to avoid confuses with cloaks. I do not mind that everyone can buy it, use it.
My idea to make it balanced to everyone. I guess "shield back" and "nerf energy" would be good.
So the thread is about cloak stats, and not about cloak usage and availability then? I apologize for following the wrong line of thought brought by others. However, I guess I don't have anything to discuss about their stats, so I'll drop this subject.
(12-16-2015, 02:58 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: They should be SRP, or certain official faction perks/equipment, which they could provide to others if deemed acceptable.
Just another variation of the elitism that the video the other day was talking about. You have a handful of in crowd players controlling who gets the cool toys, and the new players look at the server, and, after a week, say, "F! this, I'm gone!"
Then, Disco is all about big fish in the mud puddle because you're all by yourself.
dont be stupid please.
New players will see shiny things and spire to have them, they will work at their characters, develop more as a player in the community as they are forced to actually interact with it, learn more about how the server and community are tied together, and eventually they will get something nice out of it.
theres nothing elite about it, work hard get result.
You are proving the point I am trying to make by condescending to the new players that dangling baubles in front of them will encourage them. The fact that they will have to suck up to other players to get them, and the fact that the players in question won't be Obligated to provide them, will create a defacto case of haves/have-nots; elitism by definition.
Lest you next try to derail my argument by ignoring the content, I am not talking about SRPs, but rather factions having exclusive distribution rights to technology that would otherwise be generally available. Personally, I think that SRPs would be a good method except for the fact that it again devalues the players by not having an avenue for them to develop the technology for general use.
Everything else in the game that is not lore bound to a specific faction is available without requiring one player to go to another player to beg for it. You buy it. Anything that puts one player in total control of another player's ability to experience an aspect of Disco is the kind of elitism that I am referring to.
Finally, being an ass is still being an ass with Strike Out, especially when anyone with BBCode experience knows you have to do it intentionally. Starting your argument with the insult just makes you look trollish.
(12-16-2015, 05:41 PM)Chance Wrote: You are proving the point I am trying to make by condescending to the new players that dangling baubles in front of them will encourage them. The fact that they will have to suck up to other players to get them, and the fact that the players in question won't be Obligated to provide them, will create a defacto case of haves/have-nots; elitism by definition.
That i am afraid is what i must side with, first thing i see when i come to disco? Oooo look base made by player, me want one, then got disappointed when i built it docked came back 5 mins later to find my self 200k below the sun.
Classic
That is the thing i want to avoid. Where they see its something they earn, not just decide......
Character development, and Forum participation are key for a good disco player.
(12-16-2015, 02:07 PM)Nexodius Wrote: And with that you kill the chance to suprise attack the enemy.
Also when you come out of cloak you dont have the shields up so you take away the energy you can just say "hey here i am kill me".
Which is the main problem nowadays, as people take this surprise attack so seriously, they forget to say a single word and jump on you upon uncloaking right in your anus. And I have the funny feeling you're more likely of the one uncloaking then the later.
No i do not use cloak's (used it a year ago),but i aslo know that if you have one and cant use it because everyone spits on you and say's"how lame you are for using a cloak" !
Cloaks are not and never were the problem - the problem was and always will be the players. So, how to handle this accordingly?
1) Remove cloaks from traders - all of them. Keep them restricted to military/pirates only
2) Keep cloaks as they are and restrict them to officials only
3) Build same cloaks with nerfed stats (more battery drain per sec) and give them to all players with indie IDs
Do that and you will see no more abuse nor suprise attacks with 0 Rp. You might notice such attacks but they will be done properly cuz officials and those players with some sense would know how to use cloaks, have fun and never abuse them - At least this is how I use my cloak on my ship and so far havent seen anyone pointing my name cuz I take responsibility. What kind of responsibility would you expect from indies? None...that is why they will keep abusing that power and break your nerves until, possibly, devs nerf cloaks and punish those that actually care for this "Freelancer vanila equipment".
(12-16-2015, 06:06 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Cloaks are not and never were the problem - the problem was and always will be the players. So, how to handle this accordingly?
1) Remove cloaks from traders - all of them. Keep them restricted to military/pirates only
2) Keep cloaks as they are and restrict them to officials only
3) Build same cloaks with nerfed stats (more battery drain per sec) and give them to all players with indie IDs
Do that and you will see no more abuse nor suprise attacks with 0 Rp. You might notice such attacks but they will be done properly cuz officials and those players with some sense would know how to use cloaks, have fun and never abuse them - At least this is how I use my cloak on my ship and so far havent seen anyone pointing my name cuz I take responsibility. What kind of responsibility would you expect from indies? None...that is why they will keep abusing that power and break your nerves until, possibly, devs nerf cloaks and punish those that actually care for this "Freelancer vanila equipment".
(12-16-2015, 03:32 PM)Hidamari Wrote: if cloaks were SRP only theyd also be a damn sight more useful than they have to be when everyone and there pet salamander can have one.
Yes because every new player wants to need a year + on a server with months of back story and millions to drop just to try out the best parts of the mod, a feature that is advertised and rightly draws in new players. No one wants to play vanilla anymore, especially people that already spent years only playing vanilla before finding the server.
I still find it funny the amount of jealousy and butthurt players that don't use these things often have against those that do. I've never faced the harassment or 'abuse' people claim about cloaks, not even as a trader, which is where i'd expect to feel it if I did at all.
Ironically, if they got rid of snubcloaks, I wouldn't cry. They are an insta escape. Every other cloak has enough of a charge margine that if they get cloaked, they simply did it in time, or managed to evade an enemy long enough to succeed. I always thought the 2 second insta disappear for 2 minutes was a bit much. HOWEVER, that wasn't sooooo bad when fuel was not guaranateed to be at every base. There was a time when someone like me had to know where the MOX was sold, and RP'd a little to supply myself from POB's in areas where there was none sold by NPC bases. When cloaking ships were like this, we had even more economy just based around fuel. Why they killed that, I'll never understand, to me that was pure insanity. It was fun having an actual instrumental commodity that wasn't just used for occasional jumps (which are also now ever more rare) and base sieges (which are now extremely rare except core 1s). My point is, I had to think about if I even wanted to cloak in a situation, if i really NEEDED to, or could afford to. There were times i might have only got one full load of mox, and been systems away from more, maybe would have resorted to hfuel temporarily. These things to be considered made cloaking a bit more tedious and fair in application. Again, snub cloaks are pretty much excempt cuz they got 1/1s regardless. And don't get me wrong, i have a snub cloak on my fighter too, but only cuz i know its at least 1 insta escape (most likely) and will definitely get me back to the nearest neutral base to refuel.
So yeah snub battles probably are ridiculous now with cloaks and fuel being everywhere available to anyone with the sufficient rep/ID to dock. I understand that all too well the question 'what if you can't use it to escape?' Does that defeat the point? No not entirely. I actually rarely use my cloak to escape an active battle, more like evasion of a situation altogether. The odd time now I can sneak up on a transport passing by. Not so easy anymore now that we make a sound and have much shorter cloak times.
Unfortunately it seems like there is no perfect system for cloaks. We're playing a game, yet cloaks are based on real life, where if we could, we would certainly use such an advantage to hide or escape. In RL it would effect the outcomes of battles or events, but in a game it effects the entire point of playing. With the exception of the buff the snub cloak received (i guess they figure most people use them if they use any, but no wonder since they're so easy) the rest of the cloaks were already nerfed. I lost over half my possible cloak time. I gladly sacrificed armor for stealth, an option I don't really have anymore, again, something I feel they were INSANE to ditch, the new batteries for cargo thing just makes no sense to me. It was fine as it was, it was the admins that should have been telling players to suck it up and carry on and get better and harder, instead of promising to change them around to suit a minority over some bad apples that can still insta naive players if they want to. Its funny, the allure of cloaks being available to anyone is what drew me in, one of the things anyways, and i'm sure it does to others. They don't emphasise that few cloaks are good to escape, or give you much time to set up an ambush, cuz if you did that, the other player might cry and ragequite (after not spending nearly as much time or effort on their ship).
As to cloak ambushes, well, I still believe that if you RP before you appear, and you give sufficient time for the other person to respond or start moving (to avoid being a stationary easy target) then you're ok. At least they still let us talk cloaked! The haters wanted that taken from us too! If a cloaker RP's properly before an attack, regardless of being invisible, only an inexperienced player will have problems from an ambush. And that's how you get experience, sometimes learning the hard way. I hear cloak ships now myself, and even yesterday dropped RP against an Nomad indie, and they started moving around instead of sitting there chatting. I could still have dropped my surprise attack but they had their fair warning. On this server, you'll never get that perfect insta attack on someone because they've always considered it too much. If the rules are followed, people get the same RP before an attack no matter what, and the real skill becomes, who's able to pay attention enough, with everything you're doing while flying, to be aware of such an impending attack. That's the name of the game right there. Cloak haters and nerfers are either lazy or scared.
1) All official military/pirates factions to receive a free "perk" to own and use cloaks
2) If a certain official factions fail to use the equipment due to many times being reported to abuse it and bring negativity - then that perk should be removed for 3 months.
3) After the 3 month period - faction regains its cloak for 1 month and if fails to use it properly - 6 months penalty and warning
Considering the current stance of official factions - their new official separated IDs and the Perk system - it would be very easy to remove cloaks from abusers (if they are official factions). As for the indies - they will have free cloaks for very little time (example: VHF - 30 sec, Gb - 1min, CR -2min and BB -3min).
The lack of responsibility from indies is causing many problems but look at this: If official "captain" from [LN] fails to use cloak - the char will be inRP denied to use it and if he does will be in violation of RP laws, punished and rank reduced....so the player in this example would do his best to benefit most from a cloak without abusing it. Now take the example the opposite way - Indie captain abusing cloak and was told by [LN] official not to do "this" and "that"...the indie captain laughs, cloaks and run away to continue bring havoc cuz he is "indie" and can do whatever he desires.
I doubt officials would dare to use cloaks in abusive ways - it was always coming out from indies (those that are senseless, not those that care for RP) - so the best way to handle cloaks is to separate them per groups, so once a certain group does an abusive action and was reported multiple times - it will be denied the possibility to use cloak. As for indies - if they continue to abuse their "limited" cloaks - would be far more simple and easier for the devs to crush them with the nerf hammer - leaving officials who are not the problem away from it. Players need to be responsible and if they are not - their toys to be either removed or nerfed. But punishing all players (entire server) because a minor group of trolls abuse cloaks is not solution.