If you require evidence, you may request such via PM from a Staff member. Only the accused or an official faction leader of the accused person's faction may request such. Once you have the evidence, and if you wish to dispute it, you may post in the Sanction Thread below. Do not continue PM'ing a staff member, as that will result in your Appeal being denied. If you PM a staff or post in the sanction thread and you are not directly involved, you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions up to a ban. Blaming members of your immediate family, neighbors, friends, pets, and assorted Orcs, Trolls and any other legendary creatures may result in the use of Admin Right #CTE 750AE
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The base was CDed because people were hugging it and trying to dock on it. There was no attempt nor intention to attack it, neither did we have the forces to do any damage.
Posts: 2,758
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Joined: Nov 2009
Staff roles: Systems Developer
I don't know what's more sad, the person who reported this or the staff processing it. The fact that on the "evidence" itself there's more than enough counter-evidence to not only revert the sanction but punish the reporter for malicious reporting is just appaling. Let's see how the whole encounter went.
An event started which was bringing war supplies to GRN and CR/Council. We saw a lot of people in Coronado and decided to go and try to intercept transports, maybe even get a fight. The first target I found was a lone =CR= transport. After he refused to stop and even bother to write a single word, he was destroyed.
[24.01.2017 19:27:11] Renaissance|Aoi: Crayter ship, cut your engines or you will be destroyed.
[24.01.2017 19:27:25] [BG]-Ian.Norris: Hah, don't mind if i come in and help.
[24.01.2017 19:27:33] Renaissance|Aoi: As you wish. You will be destroyed.
[24.01.2017 19:28:14] Renaissance|Aoi: Gotcha.
[24.01.2017 19:28:17] Renaissance|Aoi: Weapons hot.
[24.01.2017 19:29:12] [BG]-Ian.Norris: To bad i didn't bring my bomber...
[24.01.2017 19:30:06] Death: =CR=ISE-Bailen was put out of action by Renaissance|Aoi (Gun).
Continuing on, I went to Yuma and found CR shooting the Outcasts. As I was about to enter the fight, an IMG| transport was coming off-plane, heading directly for the POB. Since I was relatively far from the base, he reached it pretty fast but failed to quick dock, making his Shishipangma start doing a full loop around the base. As he was attempting to quick dock again, I gained distance and fired off a CD at him, making the shield raise and an attack message pop up. He succesfully docked via a slow dock 15 seconds after his last docking message.
[24.01.2017 19:39:31] Renaissance|Aoi: Jean-Baptiste: Crew, set coordinates for an intercept vector.
[24.01.2017 19:39:53] Renaissance|Aoi: Jean-Baptiste: Prepare to engage the Crayterians.
[24.01.2017 19:40:08] Death: [BG]-Ian.Norris was put out of action by L\-'Mantaro' (Gun).
[24.01.2017 19:40:12] 2017-01-24 19:40:10 SMT Traffic control alert: IMG|Jonathan:Brown[R] has requested to dock
[24.01.2017 19:40:20] L\-'Mantaro': What a fool!
[24.01.2017 19:40:27] 2017-01-24 19:40:26 SMT Traffic control alert: IMG|Jonathan:Brown[R] has requested to dock
[24.01.2017 19:40:34] 2017-01-24 19:40:32 SMT Traffic control alert: IMG|Jonathan:Brown[R] has requested to dock
[24.01.2017 19:40:38] CONSOLE: Base Minerva Research Center is under attack by Renaissance|Aoi!
After a bit of fighting, same thing happens. Another IMG transport charging in on the POB, another CD shot to prevent him from docking. He managed to get into the docking sequence but abandoned it since he didn't manage to quick-dock, and proceeded to dock on the planet instead. The base was inevitably hit in the process.
[24.01.2017 19:42:33] 2017-01-24 19:42:29 SMT Traffic control alert: IMG|Monroe has requested to dock
[24.01.2017 19:42:40] CONSOLE: Base Minerva Research Center is under attack by Renaissance|Aoi!
We continue fighting. 5 minutes later a =CR= cruiser shows up. We open up on him, kill him, and immediately after a =CR= transport heads for the base. This time I CD the base first, and then proceed to intercept the transport. Common sense, right? Anyways, the transport attempts to dock on the planet, but we manage to kill him in time. After that the fight was pretty much over and we left.
[24.01.2017 19:47:27] Renaissance|Aoi: Jean-Baptiste: A cruiser? Gunnery crew, open up.
[24.01.2017 19:47:34] Renaissance|Aoi: Jean-Baptiste: Give him hell.
[24.01.2017 19:47:48] Death: Raptor was put out of action by =CR=Blitz (Mine).
[24.01.2017 19:47:54] L\-'Mantaro': Good job!
[24.01.2017 19:48:01] L\-'Trans': Nice one.
[24.01.2017 19:48:14] L\-'Mantaro': You finally fight for the right side.
[24.01.2017 19:48:24] Death: =CR=Blitz suffered a self-administered loadout error (Mine).
[24.01.2017 19:48:40] =CR=Blitz: And at least you jerks didn't get the blue out of me.
[24.01.2017 19:49:01] L\-'Mantaro': The hell is a blue?
[24.01.2017 19:49:14] L\-'Mantaro': I knew it from the beginning, this crayterians are strange!
[24.01.2017 19:50:20] L\-'Mantaro': Time to watch this firework!
[24.01.2017 19:50:22] K'Hara|Kakka: ***...-Ours- ~void~ corrupted/tainted by -theirs- "metal husks | -Ours- eradicate/purge (anger/disdain)...***
[24.01.2017 19:51:38] Death: =CR=FV-Pegasus was put out of action by K'Hara|Kakka (Gun).
[24.01.2017 19:51:38] L\-'Trans': Goodnight.
[24.01.2017 19:51:41] K'Hara|Kakka: ***...-Ours- are 'eternal' | 'darklings' ~will~ perish (affirmation)...***
[24.01.2017 19:51:44] Shi|Aoi: [[::Scanning::]]
[24.01.2017 19:51:45] Shi|Aoi: [[::Hostile detected::]]
[24.01.2017 19:51:46] L\-'Mantaro': There is a transport!
[24.01.2017 19:51:46] Shi|Aoi: [[::Initiating combat mode, moving to terminate::]]
[24.01.2017 19:51:47] CONSOLE: Base Minerva Research Center is under attack by Renaissance|Aoi!
[24.01.2017 19:51:48] Shi|Aoi: [[::Initiate cleanup protocol Charlie Echo 4::]]
[24.01.2017 19:51:49] CONSOLE: Base Minerva Research Center is under attack by Renaissance|Aoi! (// two attack messages in an interval of 2 seconds?)
[24.01.2017 19:51:52] L\-'Mantaro': Get the transport!
[24.01.2017 19:51:56] Renaissance|Aoi: Catch the Atlast.
[24.01.2017 19:51:58] Renaissance|Aoi: Atlas*
[24.01.2017 19:52:01] Renaissance|Aoi: He mustn't dock.
[24.01.2017 19:52:01] 2017-01-24 19:52:00 SMT Traffic control alert: =CR=ISE-Wanderer.One has requested to dock
[24.01.2017 19:52:03] Death: LNS-Tenebris_Anima was put out of action by a hostile vessel.
[24.01.2017 19:52:05] Renaissance|Aoi: Destroy the commodities.
[24.01.2017 19:52:14] Death: =CR=ISE-Wanderer.One was put out of action by a hostile vessel.
[24.01.2017 19:52:20] CONSOLE: Base Minerva Research Center is under attack by Renaissance|Aoi!
[24.01.2017 19:52:27] L\-'Trans': Area secured.
Now time for actual discussion. First things first, we had no intention of attacking the base. We didn't even have anything to damage it with, considering we had 2 gunboats and 3-4 snubs. That "force" wouldn't even be able to take down a core 1. Second, the "evidence" is nothing but taking screens of attack messages and the base administrator checking if the shields are raised or not. That's right ladies and gentlemen, the ship reporting this was docked on a base with 0 context to what was going on outside at the time. Hold on, it gets better.
The second part of the evidence (which Shiki provided above) literally shows the =CR= ship hugging the base and some shots inevitably missing it, hitting the base in the process. This picture on its own is enough for anyone with common sense to see why the attack message popped up. Not for the processing staff it seems. I guess the phrase "common sense is not so common" is true after all.
Overall, I request the sanction to be reverted. The evidence presented was out of context, misleading, inconclusive and a poor attempt to maliciously report someone for doing nothing wrong. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they planned the whole thing out in terms of "hey, you hug the base so they hit it one way or the other, I'll take screens while on the base and make a report" considering they were all on teamspeak together. Taking into account there's an attack on the same POB coming up soon, I'm not surprised they attempted to falsify a sanction. What I am disappointed in is the staff for actually processing something as blatant as this.
Speaking of falsifying sanctions, I have things to do. Have a nice day.
I have PMed the two people who have submitted reports against you and required them to post their version of the events here as the two sides are telling a very different set of stories.
EDIT: The reason why this is taking so long is mostly due to the fact that we are in the same situation as with a very similar report of a similar mechanic, where by the definition of the server rules an attack is considered draining a player's shield below 50% percent, but not - for example, a casually lobbed CD by an onlooker while the player is getting away from a few other people, thus resulting in their capture and destruction.
This situation, however, is regarding the fact that the rule exists to allow the base owners to prepare for a siege. This includes bringing supplies. Keeping hostiles around the pob itself with the intention to harass the base during this preparation period is by its nature, technically, an attack against it as the desired consequences is the same - the destruction of the base. This includes shooting the suppliers and so on. And while it is all a part of the counterplay during this period of time, you must understand that we are currently looking at a possible need to amend the rule in question so to make this situation more clear cut: do not involve any hostilities around the vicinity of the base during preparation period. Just do not. If you want to harass the suppliers, do it from a distance that does not involve the base if possible.
In any case, the people who reported you were PMed to post here and explain their side of the story.
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I wrote up the report because I was the only one who had the time to get the pictures, because I was on the base as base admin. I was on TS with the guys who were outside of the base. I can only go by what they said and what the blue messages and "shield raised by XYZ" messages said - as shown in my pictures. The players out there told me to report it for the 24h paragraph, and after a discussion we decided to go forward.
For me (and those who participated in the discussion), the situation is clear-cut.
There is a window of 24 hours after the declaration of hostility that is meant as a "preparation phase" for the base owner. It is a gameplay-wise downtime to give the base owner a chance to get ready, because he also may have a real life and he is in a purely reactive position whereas the attacker is in a favourable position of setting the pace, attack times, etc.
Inside this short 24 hour window, attackers cannot harrass/attack/shoot the base. That's what the rules say in my interpretation.
If you want to harrass suppliers during that time, do it somewhere, but not at the base. Again, my interpretation of the sense of what this rule is meant to do - a fair chance for the owner to react to a threat that can spring up at a moment's notice .
Therefore, being at the station, raising the shields, killing transports (e.g. the =CR=ISE-) as they come in and go out is a form of "interfering during the waiting/preparation time" by the means of "attacking the base". I do know that this "attack" does not threaten the base. But it still violates the grace period that is meant to favour the defender for a short time. These 24 hours are the time for the supplier, not for you to be there and shoot at the base for whatever reason. And I keep wondering why you are discussing this point, as for me it is 100 % clear.
I was not out there, I was just lowering shields that were raised again and again, so that transports could get in. I do not know from my perspective what other ships were doing (I was docked on the POB, doing shield commands), but I asked around and got the answer that a snub fight (3 vs 1) started around 15k from the base, and ended near Yuma/POB where OC/Aoi shot the base to raise shields - which is kind of silly, as the snubs can just dock at the NPC bases/planet anyway. Stray shots... or not... it really does not matter when it comes to these 24 hours.
The incident that is imo completely clear is the one of the transport - Shooter's =CR=ISE - that was killed directly at the base by shooting the shield up and denying docking that way. That's not meant to happen in the 24 hours grace period - in my interpretation of the rule. You can intercept the transport 100 k off the POB, or in another system - and after the 24 hours passed, you can do whatever you want, but in this short 24h window, you have to respect the rule and stay away from the base.
This is my interpretation. It was backed by a huge majority of the players present in the situation. And as I had the screens that showed the "attacked by", plus the blue messages, I quickly threw together the report. For me, the situation is clear. I do not know who else reported it.
There is also no maliciousness in it. If the rules say "24 h no attack", it's "24 hours no attack". It does not say "but stray shots are okay", or "you can kill transports by shooting the shield". It's "24 h that belong to the defender to prepare" in my interpretation. It's "stay away for 24 hours", if my interpretation of the rule is correct.
@Antonio We do not intend to bait you and oc to shoot the base and get you sanctions and there was no one hugging it. Everyone either tried to fight you or tried to dock at base as fast as possible (bar some failed quickdock attempts and slowdockers). If you count that transport undocked and tried to slowdock afterwards and died, =CR=ISE-Wanderer.One , which was me. I accidentally undocked in first place and npw that part -could- be an "accidental" attack if you guys didnt went "prevent the dock of the atlas!!!!11111!!!!!" and tried to keep the base shield up multiple times.
We are on teamspeak of course to coordinate. What you expect for real? Not every teamspeak user plans some abusive conspiracies and stuff. Keep that in mind please. I dont even report things that much. We as =CR= dont seek to see our enemies getting slapped in rear like you and Sanja implies. I dont know how you reach that conclusion but i advise you two to think twice.
@Sanja see above.
@sindroms sorry i saw your message a bit late, was busy.
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Oh my God. You think we were intentionally stopping the POB supply. Allow me to explain.
We strictly logged for the event @sindroms announced, approximately an hour after it started. Check the logs and timestamps if you really want to. We had no intention about doing -anything- related to the base. Hell, I wasn't even aware of its siege at the time and the attack declaration of my faction being a part of it came on the next day.
Get that into your head Mr. Underscore. Your faction is not the center of the universe, and I couldn't care less whether or not IMG ships were supplying a CR base at the exact same time the wartime event started. The same CR base I got information about sieging -after- the encounter. We genuinely had 0 interest in the base, who was supplying it, who was doing anything to it. All we cared about was logging to be the bad guys, intercept transports bringing event supplies and spread terror, as the Wild usually do. The POB attack messages were already explained to you. There were a result of people either running to them to dock or hugging them altogether. It's inevitable. How am I supposed to shoot someone hugging the POB without a single shot landing on it? I'm not. The base -will- get hit. And we didn't even know you were bringing POB supplies to begin with, we thought you were partaking in the event.
All this is is a petty way to mislead the admins by giving them out of context, incomplete, falisifed evidence of something you yourself twisted to make you look like the "victims". It's ludicrous that someone is dead serious about it and I'm curious whether or not you're just trolling us for the sake of trolling. I bet those same ships that hugged the base were in the same teamspeak channel with you as you were rubbing your fingers, taking screenshots and thinking to yourself "yes, I got them now haha!". I'm right, aren't I? Absolutely despicable.
A clear-cut evidence of a snub hugging it. The cruiser was doing the same. The fight against non-transport ships didn't start near the POB, but your guys sure as hell drove it to there. If you have proper evidence like a video that recorded the whole fight, I'm more than inclined to watch it.
(01-28-2017, 04:55 PM)Antonio Wrote: All this is is a petty way to mislead the admins by giving them out of context, incomplete, falisifed evidence of something you yourself twisted to make you look like the "victims". It's ludicrous that someone is dead serious about it and I'm curious whether or not you're just trolling us for the sake of trolling. I bet those same ships that hugged the base were in the same teamspeak channel with you as you were rubbing your fingers, taking screenshots and thinking to yourself "yes, I got them now haha!". I'm right, aren't I? Absolutely despicable.
And these are malicious assumptions against my person. They lack every truth, and the situation was totally different. But you would not be interested in it, understandably. Literally every bit you write here is not how it was.
I submitted all screens I had.
Nothing was "falsified". I submitted it all because I only was told later on to report it. I did not plan from the start, or I would have done it with a lot more thought.
I am not trolling.
I was not rubbing my fingers. I was typing base commands.
And I know you think I am a despicable person, but I guess I do not care any more.
Pretty interesting how you can be so wrong in this paragraph.