' Wrote:Dab, first off, try for once to open up a post without insulting someone.
I do many many times. You just never look at those posts because they don't reach the required bashing levels.
' Wrote:On your capship argument; GMG uses only gunboats, and strikecraft, and does not use cap ships because it is just simply not practical in the gas clouds.
Gunboats are capships. If you don't agree with me, check admins. Its officially a capship. So yes. You do use capships.
' Wrote:And the Eagle is manufactured in Liberty, check it's infocard.
Infocard checked, scoured, and now posted.
Eagle Wrote:The Eagle stands vigil over the economic interests and, therefore, the ideological interests of Liberty. With its maxed-out power rating and reinforced armor plating, it is the most sophisticated and advanced vessel in the Civilian class. All in all, it delivers the maximum defensive potential and punishing offensive firepower that credits can buy.
Yes, it says it 'stands vigil over the economic and idealogical interests of Liberty.' However, not a peep about where it is built. Therefor we have nothing to go on other than the actual sell points. Both of which are Zoner. One a guard, the other a major base. One in the same system, the other only one jump, from their shipyard. Hence; Thats where its built. Selling point would be close to the construction point.
' Wrote:H-Fuel is still the most commonly used type of fuel, and is still being exported.
Yes it is. But Deuterium is growing, while H-fuel is declining. Add Gallia's fuel source to that and you'll find GMG's economic backbone isn't so solid. Also, see below.
' Wrote:Samura, I see no mention of them having any success of mining H Fuel, please back this up.
Go check Hokkaido. Rumors, News, and infocards in the system. Samura is mining H-fuel there, and its a well-known fact. There is also 3 Samura Gas Miners in Hokkaido.
' Wrote:GMG also transports most of it's own fuels.
Wrong. Kishiro transports the majority. Samura transports a fair portion, in spite of the tense relations between them. Samura picks up loads from Aomori regularly. GMG transports perhaps 10% of their output. Further, look at GMG NPCs.. They don't even have major transport ships. The GMG Miner ship was added, not vanilla. Plus its a mining ship, not a real transport at that. GMG transports a very small amount of their own fuel.
' Wrote:GMG has 5 bases, and an extra one in 4.85; maybe two.
One extra. And this point is moot. You'll still have less. Don't forget that Outcasts and Corsairs are getting 3 or more that I know about.. Zoners are getting 4 or more.
' Wrote:Total of six, maybe seven bases if we get two instead of one in 4.85.
6-7. Refer to above.
Thats 6-7 compared to 12 or more. Let alone Zoners 19.
Quotes failed because there were too many of them. The rest;
' Wrote:As for your claims that GMG would get killed by KNF.
Aomori would be conquered, yes.
Naha... No.
We would lock dow the jumpgate into Honshu much like we did with the Rheinland Gate, leaving the only option for Kusari to try and go through Hokkaido and Chugoku.
You do know there is a jump hole to Sigma-13 from Honshu right? And from Sigma-19.. KNF can attack from Honshu directly, or go rape Ogashawa and enter Sigma-13 from there. So Aomori gets conquered. Then Ogashawa, then Naha. And Kusari supported you covertly during the war with Rheinland.. Rheinland isn't going to support you against Kusari. Rheinland might in fact decide its a good time to go after you themselves. Rheinland takes out Naha, Kusari takes Aomori, Ogashawa, and Fujisawa, your new ones. Without your money-making stations, the guard stations will be useless and GMG would be destroyed.
' Wrote:If they did manage to get through the gate, we would simply use our strikecraft, and our alliance with the BDs (Since at this point, we would not care for keeping it secret anymore), and our cloud war tactics, to conquer the one batleship, KNF is at war as well, remember, they wouldn't put to many resources into a battle they would lose.
BD beat the KNF by remaining elusive. In-RP, KNF doesn't have a clue where Kyoto is yet. BD also do hit and runs that are very fast and avoid KNF encounters when possible. GMG has established bases.. They can't hide. Your idea of using strikecraft is useless as Kusari knows where they are based off of and can simply go straight for the station. No station, no strike craft. Cloud war tactics? I guess you didn't read all of my post then.. KNF is just as thoroughly experienced in nebula combat as GMG is. Further, they are a proper military, better trained, better equipped, and much large. Some of their pilots would even be experienced in a real war. GMG's security forces wouldn't stand a chance. They wouldn't be as well trained, equipped, or experienced. And the only advantage they had over Rheinland, nebula experience, is useless since KNF has the same experience. And KNF may be at war, but they are winning. Winning well. They could spare more than enough to crush GMG forces. Not to mention the Farmers Alliance and Hogosha who would come help. Lastly, KNF is not likely to use a battleship, except maybe when taking out the stations. They will meet GMG fighters to fighters. Maybe a few gunboats.
' Wrote:Don't believe at how good our combat is in the clouds? Look at sigma 13, no Rheinland war vessels wrecks by Naha, correct?
Refer to above. KNF has as much experience in it as you do. Also, no wrecks near Naha, because Naha had fell almost immediately to the Rheinland Fleet. The Fleet was destroyed when it tried chasing GMG through the nebulas, after Naha had already fell. Please do your homework. The fighting didn't occur at Naha because GMG beat them before they got there.. It didn't occur at Naha because Rheinland had already secured it.
' Wrote:We allow ALG and Junkers to be in Sigma 13, only as a cleanup operation..
Thats great.. Now try to kick them out and see how well that goes down.
' Wrote:We do own it.
I think you'll find Outcasts, Corsairs, ALG, and Junkers all opposed to that. And willing to fight for it if GMG tried to force them out.
' Wrote:And Rheinland boarding Naha? Again, to wrote you 'Please provide evidence to backup your statements'
Please read up on your history before trying to increase your ego by engaging in a debate that you are incapable of forming correct counterarguments.
Alright, I'll go grab the rumors. Its about somewhere.
' Wrote:Yes, I just insulted you, and yes, I am a hypocrite of the highest degree.
I see the GMG as a big company with it's own military branch? Like how the East India Trading Company had it's own fleet and army and such. There is no way the GMG can be considered it's own house when the Corsairs and Outcasts aren't. They're just a bunch of miners who got their hands on some guns.
So this is just a talk about hypothetical possibilities. It must be as I notice the lack of "I believe that..." "It's in my opinion that...." or "I feel that..." instead we have opinions thrown in as though they were facts.
I have so far wittled my SS's down to 62 all refering to GMG sovereignty, GMG beating Rheinland with the only help coming from Kusari in the form of covert supplying, treaty being between Rheinland and GMG, Samura slow but eventual fall as Kusari moves to Kishiro, GMG being experienced in battle tactics as veterans of a war, Rheinland making the mistake of thinking GMG was just a group of miners, GMG future planes when ALG/Junkers are done etc...All of which would be pertinant to this discussion if it is a discussion of facts and not hypothetical possibilities if all diplomacy was thrown out the window.
Oh I even have the SS's that Deuterium isnt a replacement for H-fuel it is an additive......well I'll just continue prepping this SS's by the time I am done I'll know if this is an actual discussion of FL or not.
Edit: just saw Swissscorch, not house, it's more akin to mini-house but GMG is completely sovereign
As I was waiting for my next upload to photobucket I noticed some references also to Hokkaido.
I got some for that as well though, Samura's operations are young and plagued, they are hoping KNF will leave soon so that Samura may finally claim the system. 3 miners? heh takes more. GMG has 28 undockable miners (like the 3 Samura has) as well as the twon major miners, this is from what I found. I also have some stuff from Rheinland that I used my BHG to get, they never recovered and Manheim can't export in fact they can't even supply their own house and still requires H-fuel from us through Kishiro. The evidence is all coming....slowly.
Well Kusari is indeed full of nebulas, our own Doryu and Hiryu clouds have fingers that come into Kusari not to mention the Crow. However I haven't found any info saying the KNF did any operations in any Nebulas, in fact I have come across info that the BD we train in Nebula fighting remains elusive to KNF. I haven't recorded it for posting as KNF-GMG battles will not happen in FL so there is just no info on that possibility.
As this conversation is open to all I'll pitch in my own, unsolicited, two cents.
To sum it up to save everyone the bother of actually reading why I feel these things. I do not believe that the GMG are to be considered a sovereign in house simply because I haven't seen any desire from them to be considered as such.
Case closed.
*borrows Jinx's pontification cap*
Now as to the implied question concerning relative power, well... I've read a few points in this thread that I figure are worth touching on, simply because I'm always correct and my views add a nice foundation of absolution to a discussion.
The first is that H fuel is very important to the four houses. It's what runs ships. Tradelanes get a lot done without requiring that you burn a burner to get from point A to B, but when you need to rely on Newton to get from point A to B H-fuel is what you use.
Deuterium, a disco addition, is of course heavy water. Which I believe is intended for use in a more long range capacity (I gleaned this secret from what it says on the label). In other words, if you need to get from point A to Y in stead of B, you fire up the deut on your long range deep space exploration vessel. I can't imagine it's really all that rare, given that the only thing you need to have to generate the stuff is an ocean and patience, but perhaps Canaria has some unique qualities which generates enough for commercial sale.
Rheinland produces enough H fuel from its sad little planet to utilize for government use. This fuel is produced at a loss. They can keep the military in the air, so to speak, but it's not competition for the GMG nor does it impact the local market.
Samura is also attempting to produce H fuel on its lonesome and has a rather nice field for it, however it's not operating too hot, is considered such a foolhardy venture that IC wont insure it and is, again, a pale alternative to what the GMG is putting out. It produces, but simply not much.
Liberty and Bretonia are both strictly consumers, having no alternative fuel sources of which I'm aware.
Mox and Plutonium are utilized in the heavy reactors of battleships.
This puts into the hands of the GMG not inconsiderable fiscal capital, which in turn I expect is used to expand upon their operation. Further increasing the size of their venture and the manpower required to ensure its smooth operation in a part of the world fraught with many dangers. They lack the neutrality enjoyed in many quarters by the IMG and must defend their claims and convoys by force of arms. A force which when convened in one location has historically proven itself formidable.
So while I shall certainly not employ a term as foolish as "powerful as a house" (a notion over employed by persons substantially lacking in vision and scope, I feel) it would be foolish indeed to dismiss the GMG as lacking in significant potency. Both from a practical and political point of view. The same business view which allows them to tend to their own affairs, protect and enforce the laws in their own space and do so in defiance of their many enemies. All while churning out a profit.
Why bother with declaring yourself a state when you can just run yourself as one without the political claptrap?
Edit: And the KNF is well versed in nebula combat from their experience in...
' Wrote:Like how the East India Trading Company had it's own fleet and army and such.
This is the most on-the-money analogy that I've seen in the thread. I don't know the specifics of the East India Company, but as far as I know it was pretty similar to the Hudson Bay Company. Which, for those who don't know, was a huge company set up by England to obtain resources from the hudson bay area. it was largely independent, but did all its trade through its parent country. It ran its own land, free from any government interference, had a total monopoly on that area, even printed its own money and kept the law within its boundaries. can't really see any difference between this and GMG. But, going off the thread title, it's neither. Sovereign corporation maybe;)