So, got two different opinions about the situation... It's certainly sure that in a realistic situation, a pirate could blow up the victim after getting paid, still, not a very friendly move, as the next time the trader could go weapons hot quite easy...
Well, I'll put a bit more detailed case without giving excessive detail to keep the pirate anonymous as well as possible:
Consider a Xeno relaxedly chilling around, when he suddendly finds out a trader that is certainly moving outside Liberty with goods for their neighbours.
Xenos are terrorists, who are against trade with foreign entities, so the Xeno orders the trader to pay and empty his cargo, the trader complies without even arguing, and simply asks what could be wrong with the people of Kusari and if they can be trusted.
Then the Xeno considers the ship can be foreigner aswell, as the IFF and ID of the ships are "Freelancer". He won't really give a reply for his reasons besides that Kusari is not Liberty, then starts shooting basically disregarding the question in a fast reply.
Let's point out the pirate's ID was Xeno, but the IFF was simply empty. (Should the trader be able to know that the guy claiming to be a Xeno actually is a Xeno?)
Would that be a sufficient reason for killing the transport even after it complies in that particular case? (Considering that Xenos main objetive is terrorism rather than piracy)
(05-06-2013, 10:37 AM)Saberuneko Wrote: (Considering that Xenos main objetive is terrorism rather than piracy)
Yeah, I had myself such encouter with Xeno bomber in Kepler system. He wanted all cargo, and for reasonable questing WHY DO YOU NEED IT? Like, he is just a bomber, what he going to do with all this? He told that: Because I WANT SO!
When I was busted by few pirates, on gunships or bomber, and they asked my cargo, I asked them same question, saying, that you will get more, if I pay you 3M for example, and in the end of all they say: Yeah, true enough! 3M and keep your cargo with yourself.
They may have transports hidden nearby to get the loot later.
Also, inRP they can always say that the cargo will be picked up by one of their transports.
Normally for a 5k transport carrying ore I demand 10-13 million.
For a 5k one carrying standard commodities I demand 5 million.
For an empty one I demand 3 million.
It would be unfair for a pirate to demand money exceeding 33% of the cargo's worth.
Basically, if he doesn't comply with your demand and runs or shoots you, simply kill him - atleast you need RP.
My main activity on Disco is as a trader, it is my favourite activity, so I'm quite familiar with piracy from the trader's point of view. I've pirated on the past aswell, but still, most of my experience comes from the point of view of the transport.
You can take my word here that I wouldn't mind paying even up to a 100% of my profit on the run to one or different pirates I find along the way as long as the RP is fine. (I don't aim to get any big ship, besides maybe mantaining my transport and 1-2 others, this means most of my profit tends to end up as donations to people and/or corporations anyway!) If you ask around, I'm sure some people that knows me well could say for me that I don't care much about cash, but I really do about RP and actitude.
Some people might be forgetting the main point of playing here, and it's enjoying the time spent... Also, it's good to ensure that everyone has fun aswell.
Also, it's true that some might say "but companies need to make profit and get the goods to the correct places in order to keep bases running and bussiness growing!"
That's true, but also... if you want safe runs, you might aswell want to reorganize your convoys, instead of 4 transports, for example. Make it be 2 transports and 2 escorts. If you look at corporative NPCs, they go that way for safety! So why not following the example? Even a single scout can do the work in some cases...
Also, wouldn't this make stuff more fitting with the whole background? I still say it, if there's something that corporative convoys still lack, it's escorts. (Tell me, if you were doing this for real, would you actually move defenseless transports around a space full of pirates? I think not... Escorts would accompany these convoys)
May you meet my transport in space, you will mostlikely find you won't even need to CD me, as soon as the lane gets disrupted or I find a pirate after a jump, (if I'm not distracted with comms or stuff, in that case a CD will be a full stop for me aswell), I will stop on my own and hail the pirate, giving my respect or getting terrified... depending on the pirate's personality I'll react in some amusing way. (That's my character's actitude in an attempt to get out of the conflict without the need of using guns. "Life is more important than money...")
Anyway, back to topic, Fair Demands...
My problem starts when I come into a minus, and still, it only really annoys me a bit when the RP is only "2milordie", and really annoys me when it's like "Pay me" and then get killed even after complying with the demand (doesn't happen so often lately, and that makes me happy. I must say most pirates I find lately are fun to encounter and this actually makes runs way more amusing than those days when I don't find anyone and my runs are dry movement from A to B).
In that case, my character panics, and might become a bit unpredictable and even kamikaze.
In brief:
I personally think that any demand is fine as long as it's logical.
It's quite easy to difference when a demand is done for some RP fun, or for simply getting a blue message despite whatever can happen.
Second case still might be valid, but not nice. It's also understandable that sometimes, as a pirate, you might wait for a very long time without any transport touching your lane. (I've experienced that as a pirate some times, and I know it can mine the pirate's patience). And that might lead to a bit more tired/stressed interaction. (Exactly the same goes if the trader has been running non-stop for long times, and combining both cases in one can lead to nuclear explosions...)
There are so many factors to consider that I even think we could write a book titled like "Trading and Piracy on Sirius Sector".
Opinions?
PS: I apologize in the case this block of text became unbearably long or went too off-topic.
Threads like these are a little pointless, there is no set rule nor limit of demand just an "unwritten" rule which means every Tom, Dick and Harry with a pirate ID can do as they jolly well please and generally do.
You cannot ask what is reasonable when reasonable remains undefined.
I more or less agree with you on that, it's useless if it doesn't change anything at the end. But we may be able to make this kinds of threads useful by finding some solution or criteria that could be applied.
Even if not as a rule, it could always end up forming part of a guide for the people that are new to trading or piracy (sort like the piracy guide on the wiki).
Really, most rules we have are common sense, specially the ones regarding behaviour. Honestly, I've seen some servers with very very few rules, stuff was a bit less lorewise, but people were more relaxed and you could rarely see conflicts between people.
Sometimes it's not about how the rules are written or applied, but about what kind of initial contact the newcomers have with the community.
This is something I always keep saying. The best server is the one where the admins only need to give a hand fixing technical problems while personal stuff is solved peacefully without the need of sanctions, bans or trying to fool the system.
Keeping the community running in a healthy way is not only the work of the admins by setting criteria or rules to follow strictly. They're here to help and guide, but at the end, we're the ones that choose what we do and how we behave towards other people. This includes demands, and maybe some people need guiding about how to make the interaction fun for both parties.
Just encountered a red hessian who demanded 20 million for two empty transports to pass. Luckily, the player was smart enough to keep his distance, leaving me enough space to escape through the JG and the lanes, which resulted in my company to be able to move to New Berlin and thus both of us getting away.
Question is, is it reportable if a pirate demands 10 million per empty transport? It wasn't exactly the 'talking roleplaying' kind of red hessian (as indies of them usually are), but rather the, let me quote "10 million or ze will be dead" pirate.
(05-06-2013, 01:55 PM)monmarfori Wrote: For an empty one I demand 3 million.
(05-06-2013, 01:55 PM)monmarfori Wrote: It would be unfair for a pirate to demand money exceeding 33% of the cargo's worth.
What? Do you see the massive self-contradiction there? >_>
(05-06-2013, 06:48 PM)LordVipex Wrote: Just encountered a red hessian who demanded 20 million for two empty transports to pass. Luckily, the player was smart enough to keep his distance, leaving me enough space to escape through the JG and the lanes, which resulted in my company to be able to move to New Berlin and thus both of us getting away.
Question is, is it reportable if a pirate demands 10 million per empty transport? It wasn't exactly the 'talking roleplaying' kind of red hessian (as indies of them usually are), but rather the, let me quote "10 million or ze will be dead" pirate.
It's a matter of opinion. I personally say that's wayyyy overboard, and is possible sanction fodder. But some others would disagree, usually people who are those very types of pirates.