+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Player Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=244)
+---- Forum: Official Faction Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=245)
+----- Forum: Official Faction Creation Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=134)
+------ Forum: Approved Faction Creation Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=136)
+------ Thread: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) (/showthread.php?tid=103256)
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Thexare - 08-28-2013
We'll just have to harvest them from the battered hulls of our enemies instead.
I won't lie, food will be tight for a few months. Command staff will have to tighten their belts. Bandits will probably die. More than normal, that is. But we'll manage.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - EisenSeele - 08-28-2013
Just to address a point regarding Rheinland sending MND and/or any other forces to hit VR stuff in Kansas - Unless the VR steps up its operations in Rheinland (to make it any more of a problem than the Hessians/Corsairs/Liberty already are), any resources that are mustered to use for striking behind enemy lines would probably be devoted to hitting Liberty assets since the VR (nothing personal, guys) isn't exactly worth hitting any more than a juicy Liberty target.
I know that it's just one of the several scenarios discussed, but this one seems a little unnecessary.
As an aside, you guys seem nice enough as players, and would probably help bring activity to Rheinland if you wanted to pew our traders. Just don't go the way of the Hessians, who got bored waiting for Rheinland Traders and Lawfuls to show up.
Just a tip when flying in Rheinland though. If you meet up with a bunch of lawfuls you want to pew, don't start discussing political theory, because we will respond in kind and nobody will get any shooting done. You've seen this already with our hour long chat in Hamburg.
I've noticed that you're allied to the nation that you're trying to found - implying that you're separate entities. Was this intentional? Also, once your mini house is established, do you plan on stepping down with piracy in Rheinland - especially given that Rheinland would probably hold your house responsible for piracy, and could potentially do more damage than any income the VR could generate from piracy in Rheinland (IE, having NO- ships added to the interdiction list)?
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Thexare - 08-28-2013
(08-28-2013, 03:11 AM)EisenSeele Wrote: since the VR (nothing personal, guys) isn't exactly worth hitting any more than a juicy Liberty target.No offense taken. It's nice to have our lack of size sometimes be an advantage.
Quote:Just a tip when flying in Rheinland though. If you meet up with a bunch of lawfuls you want to pew, don't start discussing political theory, because we will respond in kind and nobody will get any shooting done. You've seen this already with our hour long chat in Hamburg.To be completely honest, when the Cap 8 gunboat showed up, we decided pew was not in our best interests. Besides, I (I was VR-Come.As.You.Are) am of the opinion that we should be focusing primarily on hitting shipping, not so much on fighting the military. We don't have the numbers for that.
Quote:I've noticed that you're allied to the nation that you're trying to found - implying that you're separate entities. Was this intentional?This will be addressed in detail by Kazinsal when he gets home from work.
Quote: Also, once your mini house is established, do you plan on stepping down with piracy in Rheinland - especially given that Rheinland would probably hold your house responsible for piracy, and could potentially do more damage than any income the VR could generate from piracy in Rheinland?That's a tricky subject. Especially since we really want to hit Gallia (and by extension their puppets in Kusari). You all are basically stuck in the unfortunate situation of being enemies of someone we're trying to befriend. However, they're both kind of dead, and even if they were more active, we can't really go further afield than the Taus; we have nowhere to base out of.
(which I should work on fixing; changes coming in 87, whenever that's finished, should bring more Gallic trade into Kusari from what I'm gathering, and the politics of it are easily seen already... but I digress)
Command is treating the piracy as a matter of war, though, not profit; interdicting Rheinlandic shipping in support of Liberty's war efforts. Kind of like what the MND do actually. As I said above, we don't really have the numbers to fight the military directly, and many of us are already familiar with the techniques and equipment involved in cargo interdiction operations (that is to say, we're "ex"-pirates.) Therefore, this is the most effective use of our forces.
Were Rheinland more active, I could say we'd actively focus on military supplies, but that runs into another issue and part of the reason the piracy remains: Activity. If we try to limit our Rheinlandic shipping targets even more, that'd limit how much we can do, and between that and a lack of Gallic targets within our operational range, who the hell would we shoot?
Diplomatically, I fully expect it to be a difficult situation and am prepared to deal with it. Unfortunately, we have to account for the realities of gameplay as well; a faction with nothing to do will not last, and would be a waste of the time of everyone involved, both in the faction and out.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - EisenSeele - 08-28-2013
(08-28-2013, 04:05 AM)Thexare Wrote: Diplomatically, I fully expect it to be a difficult situation and am prepared to deal with it. Unfortunately, we have to account for the realities of gameplay as well; a faction with nothing to do will not last, and would be a waste of the time of everyone involved, both in the faction and out.
With regards to diplomacy, the trade relations between Rheinland and Bretonia appears to be quite strong, and looks to continue to be solid for the foreseeable future. Given that the VR plans to enter Rheinland through Bretonia, and any trade ships found in the region of Stuttgart/Omegas would probably be in Bretonian economic interests (including Rheinland, though Rheinland's interests are irrelevant for you guys
), would the VR go for piracy in "northern" and "eastern" Rheinland?With that in mind, one would think that swapping VR Omega piracy ZoI for piracy access to the Sigmas would be better, given that piracy in the Omegas would probably piss off Bretonia, and piracy in the Sigmas would hurt both Kusari AND Rheinland.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Kazinsal - 08-28-2013
(08-28-2013, 03:11 AM)EisenSeele Wrote: Just a tip when flying in Rheinland though. If you meet up with a bunch of lawfuls you want to pew, don't start discussing political theory, because we will respond in kind and nobody will get any shooting done. You've seen this already with our hour long chat in Hamburg.
Like Thexare said, yeah, the moment I saw a cap8 gunboat I decided to talk my way out of a potentially sticky situation.
Quote:I've noticed that you're allied to the nation that you're trying to found - implying that you're separate entities. Was this intentional?
The implication was not intentional, but does do me the favour of giving me a reason to explain how the VR and the Natio are connected.
The Vagrant Raiders are, have been, and always will be at the core, a paramilitary. They're structured like a military, and operate like a military, but they're no official government-run force; they're independent of the democratic process. They're irregular. They raid vagrantly, the saying goes.
The Raiders are the founding group of the Natio, and the force uniting it. They are still, however, run independently of the government. In fact, they run the government more than the government runs them; the leader of the Raiders has a seat in the meritocracy as the Minister of Relations, handling the government's foreign affairs. The other ministers do not (and cannot) exercise control over the Vagrant Raiders. The only other minister with connections in the Vagrant Raiders is the Minister of Intelligence, who is usually the leader of Merak Squadron (the operational wing of the Octavarium Intelligence Commission; you can functionally compare them to the LSF Department of Homeland Security).
Somewhere down the line, there will definitely be other players other than VR command players playing ministers and running the Natio. The only one who will be able to run the VR's day-to-day operations is the Minister of Relations, as they happen to not only be the diplomatic representative of the Natio, but also the leader of its military.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Ponge - 08-28-2013
(08-27-2013, 11:03 PM)Thexare Wrote: Change "enemies" to "laws" and the whole thing will just repeat itself.
But your laws must be approved by the 2 neighbouring Houses, as it affects their ships traveling in NO territory. Changing laws on a whim will have dire consequences from them. Also, when a faction is created and enemies are chosen, some good RP reason is needed to change enemies, am I right?
And yes, you are right, the Admins have the final word in this.
(08-28-2013, 04:05 AM)Thexare Wrote: a lack of Gallic targets within our operational range, who the hell would we shoot?
I've seen <gj> quite much lately in Magellan and Kansas; they seem to get comfortable there, hitting ore transports. There you have the targets (// BTW, I already informed VR about this, so no metagaming mentioning it here).
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Thexare - 08-28-2013
The entire point of the Kansas clause is law enforcement. However, it's questionable as to whether or not the admins would let Octavarium count as an entity with laws to enforce, so we weren't sure exactly how to phrase it. Every way we've tried has run into an issue with someone, so I figure it's easier to just let the admins figure it out.
Edit: As for the Junkers, they just recently popped up. They are valid targets, and we will be targeting them, but they're not exactly what I was referring to; while I don't object to pirating the pirates, that doesn't really undermine Gallia as much as we'd like.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - DarthBindo - 08-28-2013
(08-28-2013, 07:30 AM)Thexare Wrote: The entire point of the Kansas clause is law enforcement. However, it's questionable as to whether or not the admins would let Octavarium count as an entity with laws to enforce, so we weren't sure exactly how to phrase it. Every way we've tried has run into an issue with someone, so I figure it's easier to just let the admins figure it out.The Natio has existed for all of what, three months max?
Yes, the Raiders are significantly older than that, but this is not the role the Raiders have traditionally played; it is significantly different, some might call it a complete reversal of the traditional understanding of the Raiders.
Questionable is, I think, putting it lightly, given that the your current Raiders as you see and play them is not four years old, but only several months.
I think the base issue of a lot of complaints issued in this thread is that you are asking for significant in-game power above and beyond that of other pirate factions, a certain amount of dev time, and a permanent place in Discovery given to you for something that has not yet proven itself a winning concept, or even something a number of players have shown themselves to be interested in truly sticking with.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Thexare - 08-28-2013
(08-28-2013, 08:14 AM)DarthBindo Wrote: I think the base issue of a lot of complaints issued in this thread is that you are asking for *snip* a certain amount of dev time, and a permanent place in Discovery given to you for something that has not yet proven itself a winning concept, or even something a number of players have shown themselves to be interested in truly sticking with.
That is only an issue for people that don't understand how the player faction IDs work. It takes a trivial amount of admin effort to repurpose one of the twenty existing faction ID slots for us (about half or more of which aren't even in use, IIRC). Change the text, give us a stack, set the rephacks and technerfs, that's literally all you have to do.
It's too late in the dev cycle for anything else we want to show up, even if it did have a chance. By the time 4.88 rolls around and the question becomes relevant to the devs again, we will have proven one way or the other if it will stick.
As for the 'more power than other pirate factions' bit... how? We have a larger range to work in than most, but we lack the heavier ships - all of them get at least 4300 cargo ships (including the 12 turret transports), where we're limited to 3600 still, and many of them have Cruisers - we do not. We're not criminals in Bretonia or (soon) Liberty, but in exchange we can't really do anything there, much like the Outcast situation in Bretonia, or the Golden Chrysanthemum situation in Bretonia (man, what is it with Bretonia). Everything has a tradeoff.
It should also be noted that all of our intended opposition is in places that really do need more activity - Rheinland isn't as bad off, but Kusari and Gallia? Yeah, not so hot.
RE: Vagrant Raiders (VR-) - Kazinsal - 08-28-2013
TL;DR of what Jake said -- Reread the ID and the discussion -- we're really asking to be nerfed in exchange for a couple RP-sensible rephacks and the ability to not be sanctioned for 6.9 technicalities regarding our RP with other factions.