+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+---- Forum: Discovery Mod Balance (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=31)
+---- Thread: Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? (/showthread.php?tid=10712)
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - Bill Christ. - 08-23-2008
' Wrote:mainly, cause it would be a dull server with only bombers around. - but you really cannot expect a battleship to withstand "reasonable" firepower ( reasonable does not mean realistic - reasonable is what forces you can "generally" muster to attack someone - and that is very often some 3 or 4 people )
how much fun is it to fly a ship that is invincible to pretty much everything?
bombers will not be like they ought to be - and battleships will not be like that either. - but we try to get as close as possible to a state where a battleship "feels" as if its worth its money and a bomber feels as if it has a chance to actually hurt the battleship, too.
I'm not suggesting a BS should be "invincible" but I do think bombers should be used in conjunction with maybe a cruiser to be able to kill a BS.
I suppose 4 bombers should be the minimum number to kill a single BS but you have to remember caps have 2.00 refire rate guns and can only shoot 1 bomber at a time.
Currently they're just not worth the money and are sitting ducks for bombers imo.
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - chopper - 08-23-2008
Quote:Currently they're just not worth the money and are sitting ducks for bombers imo.
Man, please stop saying things like this.
When you are buying a BS you are buying a huge armor protection.
You aren't paying for 'pwnage'. Who told you that BS can't kill anything?
I'v seen BS's (with escorts) making rampages a few times, no sweat.
You just need to team play as well. Having a BS is NOT a luxury for flying alone.
If you want to fly alone, get a GB/bomber/fighter etc etc.
BS is simply not a craft designed to fight alone, that simple.
Get 2 fighters as escorts and take on 2-3 bombers.
You'll see what I'm saying.
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - Colonel Z.e.r.o. - 08-23-2008
' Wrote:mainly, cause it would be a dull server with only bombers around. - but you really cannot expect a battleship to withstand "reasonable" firepower ( reasonable does not mean realistic - reasonable is what forces you can "generally" muster to attack someone - and that is very often some 3 or 4 people )
i think everyone would agree that this is not ww2 and these battleships share nothing with ww2 battleships other than their class description. - but making them as powerful as they "ought" to be ( from the point of view of a fighter ) would mean to make them too powerful.
they should prolly be just like the stationary BBs. - when you fire on them, they won t budge or take any damage. - when you disable their guns, they are repaired after some time - but you simply cannot kill them with some fighter ( think of original freelancer with the titan as the heaviest fighter and no bombers )
now that they are playerships though, they need to be somewhat weaker than they "ought" to be, cause otherwise its simply no fun - for both, the battleship AND the fighters. - how much fun is it to fly a ship that is invincible to pretty much everything?
but its an act of balance to achieve a "hard enough to kill" ship that can dish out significantly much damage without taking any chance from an attacker. - on the other side, we do also not want bombers that are invincible - and thats what makes it hard... and all that meets somewhere in the middle ... as a compromise.
bombers will not be like they ought to be - and battleships will not be like that either. - but we try to get as close as possible to a state where a battleship "feels" as if its worth its money and a bomber feels as if it has a chance to actually hurt the battleship, too.
Thank you
The only reason why things are the way they are is to keep the game relatively fun. You'll realize every gamrhas intentional gitches and mechanics that would other wise be impossible when compared to their real life counterparts.
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - El Nino - 08-23-2008
' Wrote:Man, please stop saying things like this.
When you are buying a BS you are buying a huge armor protection.
You aren't paying for 'pwnage'. Who told you that BS can't kill anything?
I'v seen BS's (with escorts) making rampages a few times, no sweat.
You just need to team play as well. Having a BS is NOT a luxury for flying alone.
If you want to fly alone, get a GB/bomber/fighter etc etc.
BS is simply not a craft designed to fight alone, that simple.
Get 2 fighters as escorts and take on 2-3 bombers.
You'll see what I'm saying.
Here's a good one: Everybody read this!
BS's are a luxury, hard to upkeep not really that much better than the things around... Take for example a big SUV in comparison to an ordinary Sedan... it will get you places, but it's harder to park, uses more gas and when you get shot at you are a bigger target that has more armor...
Being an Admiral (the one that has his little fleet under command) you should always have fighter escorts. If you cannot roleplay and buy some escorts, you can hardly consider yourself worthy of the ship... It's not just the 750M that will make it an effective ship. For example a carrier group has somewhere from 20 to 30 ships all supporting the main ship.
There should be some changes thou... Right now a single bomber has enough firepower to potentialy kill a BS... Hell in reality it's hard if not almost imposible to take down a cruiser 1 on 1... Idealy 1 and a half bomber should have just about enough firepower to take it down (when not defending itself) and probably about 3 bombers if poorly flown and 4+ if well flown. This could be achived by raising the shield regen for about 1000, or nerfing some bomber agility... (preferable)
@Jinx. It's not fun to fly an invincible ship, most of the time people run away from you, if you like to solo things take a gunboat, If we make Cap's really to tough, then the basic fight would look like this... "Oh nohes here comes the BS let's run" You would win a fight but really what's the fun if your opponent always runs, you can do that in a pirate bomber chasing traders... but you cannot do it in a BS becouse you cannot engage cruise untill your opponent does it.
I think the dream balance team is working hard on it, correcting some uber weapons, nameley gunboats, nerfing some overpowering bombers that are to hard to hit, some models are being replaced, some turrets will be given additional range, here and there. Tripling the shields will get us nowhere fast. Small changes here and there while puting a big slice where changes are really needed...
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - Bill Christ. - 08-23-2008
' Wrote:Man, please stop saying things like this.
When you are buying a BS you are buying a huge armor protection.
You aren't paying for 'pwnage'. Who told you that BS can't kill anything?
I'v seen BS's (with escorts) making rampages a few times, no sweat.
You just need to team play as well. Having a BS is NOT a luxury for flying alone.
If you want to fly alone, get a GB/bomber/fighter etc etc.
BS is simply not a craft designed to fight alone, that simple.
Get 2 fighters as escorts and take on 2-3 bombers.
You'll see what I'm saying.
When me & my friend were in fighters we teamed up with a guy in a BS to take on NPC fleets. That was epic!:D
I'm currrently in a GB actually and I really like it. :)
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - X-Lancer - 08-24-2008
IMO.... Battleship's heavy cannon should reach around 10K with 1000m/s..all turret slot can moute Battleship class weapon and GB weapon..(so you can deside pro-anti cap or pro-AA)
Cruiser's Arty should reach 15K (which is totally a real Artillery) and the way it works it's like the flak turret we have now but it can do some real serious damage..
GB should have laser cannon..1K range..damage and re-fire rate depends on type of gun..but it has to be LASER cannon..
Fighter should have AA missile that against bomber very well (high speed, high accuracy, good turning, medium damage)
Bomber should have long range (i mean very long, at least 5K) Anti-cap Torpedo, big damage, high speed, slow turning.
CM should dump to around 60~70%...if it always works..missiles = waste of money..in a RL..if enemy is at your 6,,you are pretty much dead if you cant get out of his missile locking..(of course you can drop flares but that wont last long..)
VHF=Higher class missile mounting slot (good at against bomber)
LF=Lower Class missile slot (good at against fighter but not so good at Bomber because the missile they can moute only can do a small % of hull damage to a bomber)
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - El Nino - 08-24-2008
I did some testing of my 2x everything suggestion, from the other thread (battleship tweaking)
It kinda works quite nice against wildes in O58, now missiles with 12k damage do wonders to vanila fighters, and to Gunboats aswell... the only way i could take down the Scorpion GB with it's 8 cerebs, was to take out the cerebs... with missiles Yaay..
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - Walker - 08-27-2008
Jure if you want that get...
Dum de dum dum...
Flack Cannons.
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - El Nino - 09-03-2008
Hehe, I can't hit anything with Flak, It acts like some kind of dumb fire missile, and it's damage is so diminuative, I'd harly consider it worth the energy it consumes...
Capships, increasingly slower fighters? Or strategic weapons? - Koolmo - 09-15-2008
Flack is a useful anti-capship ballistic missle, as well as being hell on fighters in an asteroid field. I think flack is well worth the cost, and should be re-included in the mod. Although, it may be an idea to add an ammo cap on them, so they don't add to the invincibility complex. It will also stop people from using like 8 of them on a BB, as I have seen in the past.