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Should official factions have more power? - Printable Version

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Should official factions have more power? - FooFighter - 05-25-2009

Absolutely yes (although of course in a semi-controlled environment).

I'm second in command of a player group that does not base itself on any NPC faction. One of the most enjoyable aspects of that is not being bound to RP which somebody else (who does not actually RP as a member of our group) dictates you to follow - instead, our diplomacy is bound on our own interaction as both individuals and a group towards other players. We aren't told "you're now at war with House X and allies of Group Y". We decided to ally with group Y, and did that through both IC and OOC talks. Since we're only a small group both in RP and in actual player numbers, this player-made diplomacy has been rather limited so far, but still held great RP potential - now imagine how awesome this potential would be for a whole House.

In my opinion, the mod itself should mainly be a structure to build RP on. Mod lore is nice and fine, but I think official player factions should actually have huge impact on it. At the moment, official factions do not really have much rights unofficial factions lack. Essentially, all they have is prestige status (and in some instances, their own system in which they can pewpew everybody not carrying their ID and IFF). What if we gave official factions the right to shape the NPC faction they're aligned with?

Let's take the example somebody in this thread made up about Rheinland. Place a autocratic Gottkanzler in charge of the RM and the government itself. Tell players that if they dislike that, they should join the Hessians or Bundschuh, and have them lead their revolution against the Gottkanzler. If they are successful, have *them* overtake the government and style their own Rheinland house government. The remnants of the old RM and the Gottkanzler, in turn, could now either be assimilated into the new government or form their own faction. Such a takeover could even be highly dynamic: at first, you schedule an event. Side B achieves victory through both RP and PvP, so they are told to write a new infocard for the base which - along with various other adjustments - will be inserted with using the awesome autoupdater we have. The big House wars could have actual front lines, and player-created news agencies would keep the player base up-to-date.

Control should exist, though, through admins and/or the community itself. Nobody is served when faction leaders declare random people (or even entire factions) KoS just because of "personal preference". But it should never be like what has been done to the Order faction (which made an attempt at player created diplomacy and where not allowed enforcing it - something which IMO is very much contraproductive to RP on this server).

' Wrote:Note: This does not, in any way, indicate any complaints towards Jimmy Patterson's [1st] group, because he actually does it correctly.

Oh, and Jimmy is <3

Hey, *I* am the 1st's leader...although since Jimmy is the only other active member, that does make him second in command, so you're not that far off the tracks xD. But yeah, he's awesome indeed (and I bet he's flattered as well now);).

Should official factions have more power? - BaconSoda - 05-25-2009

' Wrote:Bluntly, yes.

Official factions need their balls back. Specifically, we need control - yes, TOTAL control - of our guard systems back. The right to arbitrarily deny anyone entry, regardless of alignment, and to destroy anybody who violates whatever controls we impose on our space. The only thing 'official' about us is cosmetics. We did some stupid things back in the heady days when the server started expanding, but we've all certainly learned how not to govern a faction and now we find ourselves with virtually no purpose; we're quite like the Red Hat Society. We look kind of stylish, but we don't do anything. We shoot. We pirate. We get luld at by our own people. When I was still a fascist dictator it was considered acceptable to blow people up for lulzing at you; this is another thing that should be looked at. Pilots in a military or police or what have you setting should be marginally subject to the authority of the official factions because a lot of indies tend to preclude factional authority, and, by extension, factional RP, which I think by its very nature takes precedence over indie RP.

I don't believe such a dictatorial approach should be taken. Official factions should have complete control over their guard system, yes, but not in the way in which the 101st did it. Restrictions from guard systems should be done on a Roleplay basis after the independent messes up. There is no reason for an Outcast to be restricted from his own guard system because the 101st said so. He's doing his RP the way he wants to do it, and unless that is completely OoRP or completely contradicts what is in place, he should be allowed to do it.

' Wrote:[Image: WiseBeardMan.jpg]

Dang it, Athenian, stop being so insightful. The first priority of any faction should be to set a great example of both roleplay and fairplay on the server. To these ends, a faction leader needs to set a great example for their faction and actually lead them to be both great roleplayers, and players in general.

For doing this, Official Factions get the ability to drive the mod storyline forward, to some extent. They get credibility in official diplomacy with other official factions. They get to buy a system and mod it however they like (Within certain limits).

Official factions are the backbone of discovery. Without factions, there would be no indies. There would be no Roleplay for everyone else to take after. That is what makes an official faction. That example to everyone else. Everything else is secondary to that. If someone here thinks that a faction is here to boss around other factions, he should rethink his outlook on factions.

EDIT: In other words: Factions are fine.

Should official factions have more power? - Eternal - 05-25-2009

There are many reasons why official factions should have some more "power" over the independent part of the server , many of them where , as I am sure , stated here.

I suggest that something should be "given" to the factions who have been approved , from the moment of approval and that something is " The factions guard system " . Honestly , I see no reason why factions have to pay even more money , money which most factions must earn for a long time , meaning that they get to spend less time actually playing their faction.

I suggest that from the moment a faction is approved , the factions guard system is given to it.

Of course , there are some factions which have more then one player faction , Outcasts are a very good example of this. In this case , sharing is always an option , but giving the faction a choice , which system it wishes to own , is also an alternative.

Should official factions have more power? - Baltar - 05-25-2009

' Wrote:Heh I knew you were going to vote "No" mate:D

This is why I disliked the term "power", official factions don't need more power, what they need is "respect". Like it or not the official factions are trying to role play the NPC faction they represent. Anyone who dislikes this arrangement and is incapable of following a very simple hierarchy should look to a faction that does not have an "official" player faction and join them.

Official factions are not ruled by despots, they are run by players with support and concensus from the highest ranked players in that faction. Sometimes the RP takes you too places that we would rather not go, for example the merc ban or the current Liberty trade embargo. The Merc ban was a pain to enforce and the embargo is just as bad, trying to enforce a trade embargo while avoiding 3 lolboats out to spam your lone fighter to death gets boring pretty fast.

Still I'd like to see official factions achieve the respect they should hold and in the future any major policy made by an official faction that may be considered controversial is reviewed bt the admins and either approved or denied.
Spear ... you might wanna sit down for this ... I actually agree with you ...:)

I've got no problem with official factions like house lawfuls having more control of their houses. I fully support them having the authority to role play as their lawful NPC's do. For example ... Liberty Navy, LPI, LSF, etc should have authority to uphold the laws of Liberty.

My objection comes when these official factions stray from their role play as the official faction and start adding new laws that really do not exist in traditional freelancer. Merc bans are crap ... embargo's might work ... ship bans are crap too. I've got a Civilian ID on a vessel that you purchase in Rheinland ... but the infocard of the ship states it is of "unknown" origin. Banning me from Liberty because I fly a ship you think is a Rheinland vessel is crap. So ... to gain my full support on this issue ... guidelines need to be established that the official factions only have the authority that the NPC's they role play have. In other words ... no flipping merc bans. Making me into an unlawful simply because I have a Merc ID is total crap. Go after the guys that violate Liberty laws (or whatever house you are) ... but don't freaking ban an ID because a few guys and gals are being jerks.

EDIT: With great power comes great responsibility.

Should official factions have more power? - tazuras - 05-25-2009

Well, that was a lot of reading. After all that here is what I think:

Official factions should have more powers, but in return should face a greater degree of independent regulation. I propose the establishment of a faction regulatory council, (henceforth referred to as the FRC) :
  1. Members will consist of both players in factions and Indie players
  2. When a decision is being made about a faction that a council member is in he or she must abstain and may only participate in the discussion by answering questions about facts, not any questions about opinion.
  3. They will be recommended by the community and confirmed by the admins
  4. They will have a term of service, the positions will not be permanent, I suggest the following:
    1. there will be 8 active members and four inactive at any one time.
    2. Every member will have a 4 month term.
    3. Every two months one group of four will rotate out and another group of four will rotate in.
    4. Term limits may be imposed, meaning a member may be restricted from remaining on the FRC in an active or inactive position for more than... 8 months maybe? After which they may return after X months.
  5. Inactive members can and should read all discussion but cannot participate.
  6. Decisions will be made by vote, if there is a tie inactive members will meet and discuss the issue separately and then vote, if there is still a tie the decision will go to the admins.
  7. Decisions must be made by a quorum of no less than 5. If 5 active members cannot vote in a timely manner, inactive members will be pulled in.
  8. all council decisions can be overruled by admins
  9. The council can recommend the suspension of a faction leader to the admins for serious violations of policy.
  10. The council will operate based on a strict set of guidelines. They should be interpreting and applying the guidelines, not themselves deciding what is right or wrong.
This group will also relieve the admins of some current workload. Today, since the server has been shut down, it seems the admins have gotten a great deal of much needed work done, I really think they need their load lightened.


And here are the powers I think official factions should have that the council will regulate:
  1. Higher ranking members can give orders to indies:
    1. They can only give certain orders, which will be listed.
    2. Faction Leaders can order in RP punishments to those who refuse to obey orders. These punishments can be removed by the FRC.
  2. Faction leaders can affect the development of NPC faction RP in co-ordination with the development team.
  3. Official factions can conduct NPC faction Diplomacy as long as proper time and effort are put into it and it is in the spirit of Disco canon. The FRC will be responsible for ensuring this. Major diplomacy should take community opinion into account.
Additionally official factions should be granted some powers that make indies want to play with them even if they dont want to join. Perhaps a system scan command that will list the grid co-ordinates of everyone in an area they control, this would be realistically do-able by satellite scanners in most house systems and in some independent space. Perhaps an OORP docking prevention command. I dunno.


Here are the powers I think they should not have:
  1. They cannot represent a house government. House governments can only be represented by community nominated, FRC approved players. A house government must take community opinions into account in matters that are not clear cut. All decisions made by a house government will be subject to regulation by the FRC.
  2. They cannot request sanctions for anything that is not a violation of server rules.
  3. They cannot restrict ship or equipment access to those with the proper tags and ID.
And here are a few miscellaneous things that I think are separate issues:

There needs to be control of OORP docking. I dont think it should be by the faction alone. I would preffer some kind of FL hook command that doesnt have a ton of power but that will prevent OORP docking, especially by smugglers. Perhaps a seize cargo command that if used will remove any unlawful cargo if a smuggler lands on a lawful base within one minute of it being used.

More than one Faction per NPC faction needs to be allowed, simply to allow variety and creativity in RP. Another solution to this would to be to allow sub-factions that must go through the faction approval process and can have somewhat different RP than the main faction but still fall under their jurisdiction.

Official factions that dont represent NPC factions can exist, but they will not have as much power. This will maintain canon RP because it is really the primary factions that will maintain the most power unless igiss or the dev team changes them. Any other faction would be like a small business when compared to a corporation.

And that's all I got for now, hope you enjoyed.

Should official factions have more power? - Eppy - 05-25-2009

Quote:I don't believe such a dictatorial approach should be taken. Official factions should have complete control over their guard system, yes, but not in the way in which the 101st did it. Restrictions from guard systems should be done on a Roleplay basis after the independent messes up. There is no reason for an Outcast to be restricted from his own guard system because the 101st said so. He's doing his RP the way he wants to do it, and unless that is completely OoRP or completely contradicts what is in place, he should be allowed to do it.

U r doin it wrong.

His RP shouldn't contradict ours. We are many; he is one. That entire system was, until we were forced out of it, RPed as a 101st installation. Restricted Military Airspace. I paid a billion credits out of my pocket for that system, and quite frankly, it's private property. I didn't pay to sponsor a park, I paid so that the 101st would have its own little plot to work in where nobody we didn't want, including other Outcasts, should need be, wouldn't be able to go. Land creates power. Factions, as it is, are not allowed to own land. See the problem? Screw the indies screwups. If we see a need to completely lock down any and all players within the system we should be able to do so.

Faction Regulation Committee? What happened to minimalism? The slimming down of the rules? This FRC would be ridiculously complex, and its members would be ridiculously busy.

Should official factions have more power? - ArthurDent - 05-25-2009

Ok, this is page ten and I`ll try to keep it short. I have been reading lots of good ideas, but I think this hasn`t been mentioned yet:

As I started to play Discovery I was overwhelmed by the amount of player faction tags. I mean, every Jimbo can write anything in front of his name. You shouldn`t wonder about new players not identifying you as an official faction because you look quite the same as every other player out there. Even some faction leaders seem lost in the flood of player faction tags. I know that there is a list of official factions, but it`s like learning a periodic table, don`t expect every independent player to know you.

Official factions want more respect?

Give players a chance to identify them as such. Why don`t you give official factions the exclusive right to wear specific symbols? It would help a lot if official factions would have tags like [faction] or {faction} or whatever may suit. Doesn`t solve all problems, but at least it would be a first step.

(Just the opinion of one of those noobs out there)

Should official factions have more power? - ophidian - 05-25-2009

I voted yes.


I believe that the official factions should have some kind of a power, if not a majestic one, to alter certain way of things.

I have seen diplomatic agreements being made only to be cancelled by an indy wing saying "we dont care / we are not bound" and continuing, ruining the general RP of two interracting factions / player groups and so.

I have seen indy wings creating fuzz while the general RP is about "relations being tender" stuff, ruining RP in general

Therefore I believe that both INDY and FACTIONIZED players should follow the same path under certain command HOWEVER, this power of command should not be like:

"I am Order| you will do as I say". No, in order to prevent this, I either want the factions to have a command group of 2-3 people, at least one being INDY OR to have EXPERIENCED AND RANKED members to have the right and power of giving commands and decisions for both wings.

Like, an ensign of a faction shouldn't be deciding for an indy wing. I see indies as a sub branch but branches do get connected to the main trunk. That trunk, body part shall be Admirals, Colonels, Captains whatever.

Should official factions have more power? - Xoria - 05-25-2009

It's too bad that in the midst of hullabaloo and/or hysteria, people refrain from actually reading about what they not only can do, but are explicitly encouraged to do. 99% of the complaints about faction's so-called loss of power are not just inaccurate, but are flatly contradicted by the same Admin Notice that they think stripped those powers away. Time and time again in this thread people are saying that factions ought to be able to do x,y,z, when they already can, and always have. Reread Del and Blodo's posts in this thread, since I won't repeat them, although I will quote myself.
' Wrote:None of these decisions prevent a player faction or non-player faction members of an npc faction from exerting influence (including gunfire) on characters belonging to their npc faction who are behaving contrary to the accepted roleplay for that faction as created by the mod and described by the Administration. In other words, if a Corsair affiliated character is behaving contrary to the way a Corsair should behave (for example, allying with BHG and attacking The Order) then other Corsairs may consider him hostile and act accordingly.

The point is that disruptive behavior may be dealt with by factions and players within the guidelines of their roleplay, but the simple fact of a ship purchase does not constitute disruptive behavior.
The corollary is that no one may be attacked simply for neglecting or refusing to post in a "registration" thread. If someone behaves badly, then their behavior may be influenced, but not posting in a "registration" thread is not bad behavior, nor is it mandatory according to the server rules, nor will player factions treat it as mandatory.


Should official factions have more power? - kingvaillant - 05-25-2009

More powers would mean, to me belief, giving the ability to official faction to order some troublesome indies out of battle if they are unbalancing the event

Like a BS joining a previously balanced fight...

If the concerned player does not want to cooperate and play fair, he can be tagged as rogue until he contact the leadership or understand that fairness is a prerequisite to play here.

Kinda like what we used to do in Liberty during a brief period.