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+--- Thread: Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" (/showthread.php?tid=24632)
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - reavengitair - 08-12-2009
I quite like the manta. Its a nice upgrade to the current model.
I full support you creating new models for these.. old... fat... standard things.
And I love your style XD
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - Klaw117 - 08-12-2009
That Manta looks amazing! I will defintely fly that in 4.86!
As for the Switchblade, it looks better with the longer nose, but I find it odd that the thing on the bottom doesn't extend as far as it does on the Mk I model. Shouldn't they be the same size?
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - elgeeko - 08-13-2009
I can do that if its the general consensus...
I only shortened it because in combat, long spindly things scream "shoot me off!" :laugh:
(thats the mentality behind the smaller solar panels in the Chimera. The Dragon ones are always getting shot off. Solution? make them smaller and put others elsewhere to compensate and maintain power gain. I always have my design reasons...)
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - Donutman - 08-13-2009
Holy crap the Bactrian is AWESOME! *insert jawdrop smile here*
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - jammi - 08-13-2009
Hmm... Not sure sure about the Bactrian update. The curved... well, buldge doesn't seem to suit it. I'd advise fewer curves and more ridid armour plates. Maybe just expand the bay so it's hull plates are flat, rather than rounded, but protrude out either side of the cockpit. Currently the front on looks a bit like:
(/_\)
Maybe it'd look better as:
[-/_\-]
Meh. Really bad diagram there. I'll do an ilustration on Paint when I get on something that isn't a laptop...
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - Cameron - 08-14-2009
The longer nosed Switchblade looks alot better. I like the new Manta aswell.
Not so sure about the Bactrian's nose though, it just looks like it dosn't quite sit there properly, try moveing the inside edges forward a bit. That bulge in the middle of the ship also looks a bit out of place, if it where less round and more box like, I rekon it would look a better. Otherwise its pretty good.
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - ACER_SPACER - 08-14-2009
The Wraith you did is super good. I would look forward to flying it, especially if it had that one more gun mount under the chin.
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - sean24 - 08-14-2009
Briliant work on the project so far! Im liking all the ships so far but could we have a couple more winglets added to the Switchblade? Apart from that im fine with everything, keep it up:)
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - Funkz - 08-14-2009
Whoa, you're really into it, hm? That's a LOT of time you're spending on those models. Well, first of all, I like your approach on the subject and I like especially the new Griffin. I have some suggestions concerning your design approach on the ships but let's talk about that later. First I would like to lay down some logical conclusions that you all should consider when it comes to justifying importing new models or keeping the vanilla models.
First of all the general idea of the Mk II fighters: The existing singleplayer balance of the fighters in vanilla is not playable for a faction based server and not acceptable from a RP point of view. So the developers of Discovery had to solve the problem that any Rheinland fighter would usually laugh at a Liberty Defender that is supposed to be the pinnacle of Liberty engineering. They had two options for dealing with the issue: Take all existing fighters and balance them out, thus eridicating all ships in their original state or add new ships with balanced stats for each line. They obviously decided to take option two.
That solved the balance issue between the factions as well as some RP issues, though it still leaves a ship like the Defender basically in a state of RP-nonsense because it is still a heavy fighter with very poor stats that is still outgunned by its counterparts from other houses. Also, the developers decided to describe the new ships as new additions to the respective ship line or improved versions of older ships in the infocards. This leads to the point why El-Geeko started with his re-modeling in the first place: These new ships wouldn't look exactly like their predecessors from a RP point of view. They are supposed to be improvements, like the Cavalier's infocard states that it is an improved design of the "Bee-One".
This leaves two options again if we want progress in this matter: Go ahead like El-Geeko and finish improved designs for the new ships to fit their infocard's description or keep the vanilla models while removing either the Mk I or Mk II versions and balance the remaining ships out.
A third option would of course be to say "I like everything exactly like it is". However, by leaving everything as it is the above described inconsistencies would remain.
I personally say let's go for the first option and have some new models for the Mk II ships and leave the Mk I versions as they are. This way the Mk II ships would finally resemble their descriptions in the infocards and the vanilla parts of Freelancer remain untouched. Discovery is vanilla's future, we are in the year 817 A. S. and that means that new designs (read: models) are an absolutely logical conclusion. Almost every faction is at war with at least one other faction, and that's the time where - sadly - great technological advancements are achieved, especially in ship design and weaponry. Nobody questions the genius of the vanilla designs.
Now for El-Geeko's approach itself. You give an explanation why you modify the ships the way you do:
' Wrote:[...]
There is no way you can advance a ship as much as the MK II's are advanced over the MK I's without effecting visible external change to the spaceframe.
Lets take a Wrath for example (compared to its MK I the Valkyrie) it mounts higher weapons classes, produces almost 3 times as much power, mounts a shield 2 classes up and has 20 extra units of cargo space to boot despite all these doubtless larger bulkier systems.. Its recharge and hull armor are twice as high (sauce for the goose).
There is no physical way to effect that radical a systems change without leaving visual evidence. No way in the physical universe, even in sci fi.
[...]
Right, the ships have to look different due to their advancements. But using a slightly bulkier appearane like your Switchblade and Wrath do is not the ultimate solution to show these advancements. Especially the design of the Borderworld line suffers from that, as you might have noticed when you read the reactions. Stronger and more efficient engines for example don't have to result in bigger parts of the ship that contain them. Car engines would be rediculously large today if you would transfer your approach to that. Technology evolves, but mostly it doesn't grow larger but smaller by doing that. Try to alter details in the way you did with the Hyena or be as brave in your designs like you were with the Griffin. From all ships you modeled so far the Griffin looks most like an advancement in shipdesign. If you call your project "CopyCatsB-Gone" you should come up with more unique ideas than to turn around small wings like you did with the Switchblade. That for example is an altered detail that makes not much sense since it works against the ship's overall design. Those ships are called after blades because they are similar in their appearance and the hard angles of the wings do a great deal to ensure that.
/EDIT: Concerning your poll: It is pretty useless because you don't have an option for "No, I don't want any new models" and "I would like to see new models, but I don't approve your approach". Always consider that you have to offer options for at least the most imaginable opinions, otherwise the outcome does not resemble the people's opinion in any way.
Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone" - elgeeko - 08-14-2009
I am impressed. That is one of the single largest examples of logical thought I have ever seen on a web forum.
My hat is off to you sir. :)
Let me answer the poll question since it has come up so much now;
If option 1 wins, then I intend to start another poll asking whether to add the non military MK-Is or add none of them.
I like to split decision trees and make people consider the road to drastic steps (like dropping the project entirely) one decision at a time. One of my worst experiences on the internet is to run into a single poll with too many or too drastic decisions.
In retrospect I ought to have clarified that point at first; my apologies. :$
As for an option about "new models but not my style" it would be worthless to offer such an option, as I can do nothing but be true to my own stylistic 'rules.'
The Wrath; the only change is the wings and this by special request. I did this for the sake of diplomacy as well as the sake of nostalgia (a tribute to Digital Anvils original design if you will)
The Switchblade... Alright. I will take another look at it, its not like ship design is a bore.
I want to make it resemble the same changes the Scimitar got, but I do think it could stand to look more knife-like.
Being as brave as the Griffin is unlikely for most ships, again for the sake of diplomacy and to ensure that the Vanilla flavor carries over so to speak. Still, you never know. I always thought the Cavalier could do with a somewhat more sleek shape... and if there is general outcry I can always be more conservative in the changes.
In any case, once I get home I will look into a Switchblade prototype-3, and some of the requested Bactrian modifications (don't worry Jammi, your pictograph makes perfect sense to me)
Also, current gun-mount positions now don't necessarily represent the future positions.
Thats for pass three and hard-pointing. I can only promise that I will stick to the original amount and class of guns. (so putting two mounts on the Wraith chin is entirely possible)