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+--- Thread: Zoners - why they do exist? (/showthread.php?tid=133398)
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - n00bl3t - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 02:42 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I was hoping that pointing out an example I find to suit Zoner RP best would also be seen as a subtle suggestion on which direction to improve general Zoner Roleplay, you know, as a possible fix to "supposed current problem with zoner rp".
There's not so much a problem (unless you count the fact that there's not much to do on the actual ID courtesy of heavy nerfage) with the Zoners as there is with the attitude of people with problems of there being a Zoner faction in the game with a complete shipline.
(12-02-2015, 02:45 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: As an OP, I request closing this thread or simply erase posts with ooRP rage and off-topic things.
You ever going to respond to those posts which addressed your point? Or just ignore them?
(12-02-2015, 02:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(12-02-2015, 12:36 PM)n00bl3t Wrote:(12-02-2015, 09:30 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:(12-02-2015, 03:05 AM)n00bl3t Wrote:(12-01-2015, 05:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: A big problem I've found with quasi lawfuls in general is that they try to be more relevant than they actually are. This causes them to take a very unrealistic approach to diplomacy.
That irony.
Noted. (For the next time Core thinks it's Sirius Police.)
I'm sorry that only the CW operated the way you wanted them to. Who was in charge of that? Ed? I can barely remember what factions he was in.
Would you rather have it that I declare Sirius wide Zoner Jihad? Because many times I've come very close due to the way diplomacy has progressed (in the vein bad of bad examples I mentioned earlier). I'm under no obligation to heed the ham-fisted demands of Zoners, as much as you might believe I need to :}
And I mean it's not just me who thinks CW are the best attempt at Zoners we've had in the past several years. Ask most people and they'll think the same. Even if you barely remember who he was, he still had a better grip on Zoner RP than you do. I think TAZ are alright but CW were better at hitting the nail on the head. OSI... doesn't really seem that Zonery.
If you could, you would. Roleplay about supply lines means nothing to someone who wants to powergame out of their faction limitations with a trade convoy screenshot here and there.
Last I checked, Zoners sit still and generally do nothing much until someone brings a fight in and then someone else like the Core comes and makes demands. Rebuffing a demand is not a demand.
Yeah, I don't know much about Zoner RP or lore. (Is anyone else having a giggle at this?)
And you're displaying the attributes of the problem. Core is not Order (or Corsairs etc.). We do not need to beg Zoners for supplies and get extremely worried when those supply lines are threatened because our diplomacy hasn't limited us to a very small pool of potential suppliers. And even on the subject on screenshot there's more roleplay to support being supplied from non-zoners than there is from Zoners (shout out to our Junker allies).
As sone constructive critism perhaps Zoners should start treating factions on a case by case basis, rather than blindly charging in with a stock fr5 template.
Indeed Zoners do sit still sometimes, but often they try to force themselves into environmental politics that do not concern them as much as they'd think - nor is their influence or relevance as big as their "I'M A ZONER FEAR ME" mindset.
Yeah. House corporations want to supply the BHG in the edgeworlds instead of their own government or themselves, thereby denying them a stake of the resources. That makes a lot of sense.
Zoners are unlikely to want to know you when you demand compliance from them and shoot up their base. The visual aspects of the ships are the only difference between how you operate the core and nomad NPCs.
If it isn't in your RP to cooperate, you're not going to get cooperation.
I doubt Zoners care about BHG unless they're powergaming a way to take over Freeport 11 or hanging around a Freeport looking for drama.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 04:11 PM)n00bl3t Wrote: You ever going to respond to those posts which addressed your point? Or just ignore them?
I lost interest into this topic as soon as it turned into rage thread, what I do not approve. Before this thread, I didn't know what is that whole Zonerzonerzoner thing. Now I do.
Don't get me wrong. But we have have 11 pages of that thread. Around 95% of posts here is ooRP raging on Zoner players and Zoner factions, thanks to which I am pretty discouraged to even bother about it anymore.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Lythrilux - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 04:11 PM)n00bl3t Wrote:(12-02-2015, 02:42 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I was hoping that pointing out an example I find to suit Zoner RP best would also be seen as a subtle suggestion on which direction to improve general Zoner Roleplay, you know, as a possible fix to "supposed current problem with zoner rp".
There's not so much a problem (unless you count the fact that there's not much to do on the actual ID courtesy of heavy nerfage) with the Zoners as there is with the attitude of people with problems of there being a Zoner faction in the game with a complete shipline.
(12-02-2015, 02:45 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: As an OP, I request closing this thread or simply erase posts with ooRP rage and off-topic things.
You ever going to respond to those posts which addressed your point? Or just ignore them?
(12-02-2015, 02:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(12-02-2015, 12:36 PM)n00bl3t Wrote:(12-02-2015, 09:30 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:(12-02-2015, 03:05 AM)n00bl3t Wrote: That irony.
Noted. (For the next time Core thinks it's Sirius Police.)
I'm sorry that only the CW operated the way you wanted them to. Who was in charge of that? Ed? I can barely remember what factions he was in.
Would you rather have it that I declare Sirius wide Zoner Jihad? Because many times I've come very close due to the way diplomacy has progressed (in the vein bad of bad examples I mentioned earlier). I'm under no obligation to heed the ham-fisted demands of Zoners, as much as you might believe I need to :}
And I mean it's not just me who thinks CW are the best attempt at Zoners we've had in the past several years. Ask most people and they'll think the same. Even if you barely remember who he was, he still had a better grip on Zoner RP than you do. I think TAZ are alright but CW were better at hitting the nail on the head. OSI... doesn't really seem that Zonery.
If you could, you would. Roleplay about supply lines means nothing to someone who wants to powergame out of their faction limitations with a trade convoy screenshot here and there.
Last I checked, Zoners sit still and generally do nothing much until someone brings a fight in and then someone else like the Core comes and makes demands. Rebuffing a demand is not a demand.
Yeah, I don't know much about Zoner RP or lore. (Is anyone else having a giggle at this?)
And you're displaying the attributes of the problem. Core is not Order (or Corsairs etc.). We do not need to beg Zoners for supplies and get extremely worried when those supply lines are threatened because our diplomacy hasn't limited us to a very small pool of potential suppliers. And even on the subject on screenshot there's more roleplay to support being supplied from non-zoners than there is from Zoners (shout out to our Junker allies).
As sone constructive critism perhaps Zoners should start treating factions on a case by case basis, rather than blindly charging in with a stock fr5 template.
Indeed Zoners do sit still sometimes, but often they try to force themselves into environmental politics that do not concern them as much as they'd think - nor is their influence or relevance as big as their "I'M A ZONER FEAR ME" mindset.
Yeah. House corporations want to supply the BHG in the edgeworlds instead of their own government or themselves, thereby denying them a stake of the resources. That makes a lot of sense.
Zoners are unlikely to want to know you when you demand compliance from them and shoot up their base. The visual aspects of the ships are the only difference between how you operate the core and nomad NPCs.
If it isn't in your RP to cooperate, you're not going to get cooperation.
I doubt Zoners care about BHG unless they're powergaming a way to take over Freeport 11 or hanging around a Freeport looking for drama.
The key difference with the Core to other Edge Worlds faction is that they do not have the hostile diplomacy that prevents them from conducting trade with houses and corporations. They do not need a middle man like the Order does with Zoners. For a very long time, back in the earlier days, (BHG) Core had a direct link from Rho/56 to the Houses (in the form of Halle). On top of other factions delivering supplies, they would also fetch their own supplies via APM as well (albeit less than the external suppliers). And recently Rho has connected with Rheinland once again via Luneburg. Their reason for supplying the Core is either sympathetic (the whole "we're the true protectors of humanity!" propaganda) or because they're getting paid either in credits or in research materials and technology.
If Zoners are reluctant to get acquainted then I don't mind. The Core RP is to oppress, under the guise of protection. They're not supposed to be nice guys under all that propaganda. Having genuine political conversations over how the Core acts with Zoners is quite an interesting experience (kudos Karst) although unfortunately rare. This infocard sums things up:
515049(i) Wrote:The Core is an indirect enemy of Zoners such as me. They are bent on bringing regulation to our home in total freedom, despite us leaving the houses for their rules in the first place. We do not want their laws, taxes and oppression. Many of us will not admit it and none of us could actually do something about it. The Core is an organised military and the Zoners are not even united by definition.
We don't really ask for cooperation. It's not something we really care for as Zoners aren't that important to the survival of the Core beyond a propaganda tool (or any other specific means). In terms of a dynamic though, the aforementioned tension is the objective. Oh, I also wouldn't imagine that the Core would be happy given a repeated history of seeing Zoners supply the Order (many times in the past BHG Core got close to total war against Zoners, I believe they actually did hunt a specific group for a small time). Yes, the Freeport might be in our sights but that's secret for now
My gripe stems from that - rather than pursuing logical RP and diplomacy - Zoners jump straight to the FR5 wagon and then find themselves very confused and prone to crying when, not just Core, factions don't play along and start to ready their guns. Just because you lack a rephack in your diplomacy sheet does not necessarily mean that faction inherently owes you anything. It's the same case with piracy as well. Your neutrality won't give you an auto-shield against a credit/cargo demand. If an individual Freelancer or something adheres to FR5 threats that may be fair enough because they are simply an individual. If an entire faction doesn't then don't act so surprised, although as I said it may differ on a case by case basis. Some factions may be closer to you than others but even then it doesn't necessarily give the Zoners more gravity than the other faction.
And honestly it's kind of pointless/petty to keep dragging Core into the argument and it makes this thread feel more like a s-alt train - although I will happily share the Core viewpoint as you seem heavily misinformed about the roleplay - but it's redundant to keep regurgitating it because it's a universal problem that is encountered across all factions (Core, Corsairs, Outcasts, Bretonia, Liberty Rogues etc.).
However if you're so desperate to keep your claws embedded in something so trivial then be my guest: that is the definition of Zonerzonerzoner after all
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Doria - 12-02-2015
If zoners were to "jump straight to FR5", Core would have been a long time ago.
So, please stop the hypocrisy and let's play the game. I don't mind Core's RP, we have to deal with similar attitude from sairs, coalition, order... You are of no more concern to us than any other faction.
EDIT: like, right now, Order and the Sisterhood are at war, and we have bussiness agreements with both... That's what I find nice in the Zoners RP, and all these diplomacy problems that generate so much drama in the forums could be actually very fun if we agreed to play the game and stop the ooRP debates in the forums.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - pillow - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 12:55 PM)Doria Wrote: I loled. Can't even use the word jihad properly...
By the way, about CW: I was in it. It's better dead.
yes but who cares about you huehuehue
Seriously though. I want to see people that can form a proper sentence. With the period and everything, at least
78% of the time.
The server already has like 3 people left that care about that stuff.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 07:12 PM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: Seriously though. I want to see people that can form a proper sentence. With the period and everything, at least
78% of the time.
The server already has like 3 people left that care about that stuff.
Four, if you count me in.
Sometimes, I overreact and add up the unnecessary comma in place where it shouldn't be.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Thyrzul - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 12:55 PM)Doria Wrote: By the way, about CW: I was in it. It's better dead.
Hey, now I remember, you were the one asking for access to Roussillon without offering anything in exchange and felt offended and resentful when I asked what services could CW provide in return so much you've withdrawn all the content of your posts in that comm. What a talented negotiator! Definitely not the reason why CW is "better dead".
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Doria - 12-02-2015
such wow
much mature
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Tabris - 12-02-2015
Keep civil ladies and gents, don't want to have to close this if folks start screaming at eachother. :S Continue on! - Tabris, Communist Mod
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - pillow - 12-02-2015
do I need to copy-paste some intelligent swear-filter bypassers for some quick laughs while praying to the skygods of space and time for cw to be back
because i'll do it