+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+---- Forum: Discovery Mod Balance (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=31)
+---- Thread: Superior Phantom ships/weapons (/showthread.php?tid=17866)
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - Lunaphase - 03-17-2009
i voted 0%. Frankly, the phantoms need to work on the ingame rp, i saw them with my train the other day, i tried RPing, know what i get?
"prepare for a shock" BOOM instakilled
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - bluntpencil2001 - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:What you're arguing here is a logical fallacy called the slippery slope. Some factions have gotten ridiculously better equipment than their counterparts (The Sabre and Red Cat come to mind), and the rest of the mod has been kept relatively the same. The word precedent comes to mind, though, I don't understand why that word is used so much around here...
But, then another question is why can't we give them something particularly special? Maybe we could give the Corsairs the Cheetah Thruster because they're better at making ships (And Tripoli has a news article relating ton engines, oddly enough)? Why not give the LSF better shields or something like that? Why not give the order more efficient Neutron Guns, or access to a better Torpedo, as was intended by the Supernova? Something like that wouldn't unbalance the server (I don't think, though I'm no balancer), and it would add flavor to the particular factions involved. Though, if we did do that, it does bring in the "why not" slippery slop fallacy you did present, at which point the reason for receiving such special privileges has to be explained. Whether or not it is worth the trouble is dependent on the developers, really...
I'm simply suggesting that standards should be the same for everyone. Being in an OMGLOLwehaveuberguns faction simply isn't fair when near enough every faction has some sort of claim to something damagingly special. The fact that most factions have something which could unbalance it all, would suggest that 0% is best for all.
Liberty Navy and LSF get up to all sorts of crazy experiments. They should be most powerful.
The Order have all sorts of crazy experimental tech. They should be most powerful.
The Nomads and the Wilde have their alien tech. They should be most powerful.
The BHG are stealing alien tech. They should be most powerful.
Corsairs are elite shipbuilders and tough-ass pirates. They should be most powerful.
The Rheinland Military had tech left over from the Nomad War, like cloaks. They should be most powerful.
The Bretonian Armed Forces has an invincible shield around a Nomad City in Newcastle. They should be most powerful.
The KNF have the most big research stations. They should be most powerful.
The Blood Dragons are supposed to be the best pilots in Sirius, so should have their tech make their players reflect this. They should be most powerful.
The Coalition were spying on the Manhattan Project/Secret Weapons Project/Your Mother so have access to XYZ. They should be most powerful.
The Phantoms are scary baddies. They should be most powerful.
---
Right, try balance all that. Who really gets to be the best? Just leave it at nobody.
RP your weapons as strong as you like, statistically, leave them as they are, or we'll be asking for infinite credits, since I'm roleplaying a character who has a mutated colon, that makes him defecate diamonds.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - Eppy - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:I'm simply suggesting that standards should be the same for everyone. Being in an OMGLOLwehaveuberguns faction simply isn't fair when near enough every faction has some sort of claim to something damagingly special. The fact that most factions have something which could unbalance it all, would suggest that 0% is best for all.
Liberty Navy and LSF get up to all sorts of crazy experiments. They should be most powerful.
The Order have all sorts of crazy experimental tech. They should be most powerful.
The Nomads and the Wilde have their alien tech. They should be most powerful.
The BHG are stealing alien tech. They should be most powerful.
Corsairs are elite shipbuilders and tough-ass pirates. They should be most powerful.
The Rheinland Military had tech left over from the Nomad War, like cloaks. They should be most powerful.
The Bretonian Armed Forces has an invincible shield around a Nomad City in Newcastle. They should be most powerful.
The KNF have the most big research stations. They should be most powerful.
The Blood Dragons are supposed to be the best pilots in Sirius, so should have their tech make their players reflect this. They should be most powerful.
The Coalition were spying on the Manhattan Project/Secret Weapons Project/Your Mother so have access to XYZ. They should be most powerful.
The Phantoms are scary baddies. They should be most powerful.
---
Right, try balance all that. Who really gets to be the best? Just leave it at nobody.
RP your weapons as strong as you like, statistically, leave them as they are, or we'll be asking for infinite credits, since I'm roleplaying a character who has a mutated colon, that makes him defecate diamonds.
One question, blunt:
Where does this leave the Outcasts? We have our black hole, the only one in the galaxy, so with our advanced temporal research we should be the most powerful.
:lol:
But seriously, he's right. The Gaians should be the most powerful, because they love life and therefore Jesus is on our side.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - Zelot - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:But seriously, he's right. The Gaians should be the most powerful, because they love life and therefore Jesus is on our side.
I dont even know where to begin with this one eppy.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - BaconSoda - 03-17-2009
My, oh, my, so nasty. I thought I was being quite civil....
' Wrote:You don't? Oh, wait, let me adjust my tone to yours.
Facts :
Phantoms don't have any ZOI limitations.
Phantoms don't have to ask traders for a fee or drop, they just shoot. And kill. And become Chuckies.
Phantoms don't have to write a word in system chat before they attack. Why? Because their RP is to kill.
And these aren't my words.
You're right. We can go anywhere. We can shoot traders without a demand. Does that mean we shun RP from traders? Not really. I'd rather not shoot Bretonians, actually, in my Phantom, because that is my RP. I'd like to see Kusari fall first. Does that mean the others do the same? I like to think so.
' Wrote:In your time? Who said anything about your time?
Are we talking about the current Phantoms, or the years of Phantoms that were? I like to think we can stay in the present, can't we? We're changing things now, so lets talk about now.
' Wrote:Remember when Phantoms were shooting all traders in Sigma-13?
Do you remember what was the 'exceptional RP' reason for it?
Yeah, because traders were abusing a bugged route. Great RP.
I mean, many people supported it, because that route was really 'OMGOORP'. But that is not an excuse.
Particularly ruining the economic foundation of the houses is the basis of Phantom RP. It's stated on the faction status page...
' Wrote:So, you are technologically advanced? Well I don't really know that, so I can't think that you are.
Your whole RP is blurred for RP reasons. I just know your characters have some magical powers, that's all.
So, is it a bad RP to beat a Phantom? Should we all just die because it's your RP to win?
I'v asked the same question in a 'Nomad flame thread', just for a notice.
And no, I don't think RP is better then fairplay. Fairplay keeps us all together. RP is just nice.
Fairplay was always my favorite, so no point in arguing about it with me.
If you can't RP and be fair at the same time then I don't think you should exist at all. Disappear. Harsh? Yes.
Problem is, however, when your buddy in a Sabre has full Krakens + Inferno.
And then you tell me you don't have any advantages?
I don't know for another faction that could use both Tizonas and Krakens. Not on the same ship though, but who cares?
Not even Keepers.
Well, sir, I'm actually a special case. If you'll notice my Special RP Request, I hate the Outcasts because of what they caused many Kusari to do, and forced me to do what I did though indirectly, and so I am more partial to Corsairs. You can say whatever you'd like about how I am just justifying my PvP whoring with a special RP request, but, I like to think we're better than that as a community...
' Wrote:Great, good for you. Why are we discussing all this then? That's all I wanted. 0%.
Now, just to take a moment to adjust my tone to the normal again. Ok, that's it.
That's why I want 0%. Not for my sake, but for your sake.
And then you can point out to that and say "Look, we wanted normal, regular guns, we're not PVP whores".
This way it will be :
"You're PVP whores"
"No we're not"
"Yes you are *points at this thread*"
"It's our RP!!!"
"Great RP,lolomgrofl"
Avoid it. Trust me.
Cheers.
This is a fine question. I'm wondering the same thing, actually. I wonder the same thing whenever a thread such as this comes up. I thought the same thing about Keeper and Phantom threads when I wasn't a part of the Phantoms. I do want to avoid that. I am working to avoid that. Strangely, I think others outside the Phantoms don't want that. It's an oddity to me, really....
' Wrote:I'm simply suggesting that standards should be the same for everyone. Being in an OMGLOLwehaveuberguns faction simply isn't fair when near enough every faction has some sort of claim to something damagingly special. The fact that most factions have something which could unbalance it all, would suggest that 0% is best for all.
Liberty Navy and LSF get up to all sorts of crazy experiments. They should be most powerful.
The Order have all sorts of crazy experimental tech. They should be most powerful.
The Nomads and the Wilde have their alien tech. They should be most powerful.
The BHG are stealing alien tech. They should be most powerful.
Corsairs are elite shipbuilders and tough-ass pirates. They should be most powerful.
The Rheinland Military had tech left over from the Nomad War, like cloaks. They should be most powerful.
The Bretonian Armed Forces has an invincible shield around a Nomad City in Newcastle. They should be most powerful.
The KNF have the most big research stations. They should be most powerful.
The Blood Dragons are supposed to be the best pilots in Sirius, so should have their tech make their players reflect this. They should be most powerful.
The Coalition were spying on the Manhattan Project/Secret Weapons Project/Your Mother so have access to XYZ. They should be most powerful.
The Phantoms are scary baddies. They should be most powerful.
---
Right, try balance all that. Who really gets to be the best? Just leave it at nobody.
RP your weapons as strong as you like, statistically, leave them as they are, or we'll be asking for infinite credits, since I'm roleplaying a character who has a mutated colon, that makes him defecate diamonds.
Well, sir, it was a simple question, and a civil one. If it's not possible, it's not possible, but, it's a better alternative than just yelling at the screen. Christ, it's like people forget that we're all playing a game sometimes...
Now, I'm going to go off to bed, and probably never posting in this again. I can see what everyone just wants to do. Have a nice night...
EDIT: Oh, the quotes worked!
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - chopper - 03-17-2009
bluntpencil2001 Wrote:RP your weapons as strong as you like, statistically, leave them as they are, or we'll be asking for infinite credits, since I'm roleplaying a character who has a mutated colon, that makes him defecate diamonds.
And this one hits to the bone. Thank you, sir.
Baconsoda Wrote:Particularly ruining the economic foundation of the houses is the basis of Phantom RP. It's stated on the faction status page...
Yeah. But sadly that was not mentioned as a reason. The reason was something like :
"There are tons of OORP-ers there and we, Phantoms, decided to take care of it".
Sure, it fits your RP to stop trading between Rheinland and Kusari. You can always find an excuse.
But the point remains. It was stated that it's bad RP to trade there and so you decided to teach people a lesson.
And that sucks. Other pirates actually had to pirate. You just boomed everything to the stars.
And I don't even care about it. I just stated it to show you that you actually do have an advantage over the rules.
And you are using it quite well.
Similar thing happened in 4.83 when a band of MK's decided to teach Harriss-McDuff OORP-ers a lesson.
McDuff being a BAF BS, Harris being planetform planet.
They blasted traders (or at least tried to, since route was quite short) left and right.
They were Blood Dragons and GC's btw. Now, when asked how come McDuff isn't defending it's traders we got an answer like :
McDuff crew is infested blahblahblah.
Now, that would all be fine.. But when MK's fought BSG they used that same McDuff as a docking point.
BAF. Infested. Docking on it? Great.
Those are the only two cases of ingame dealing with OORP-ers trough "RP" for non-RP reasons.
Now, enough with history parallels from me, I'm off to bed too.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - bluntpencil2001 - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:And this one hits to the bone. Thank you, sir.You're very welcome. And it's good to see you back!:)
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - Eppy - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:I dont even know where to begin with this one eppy.
You already began with it, mate. It is, after all, your fault.
Also, since when was the Sabre 'Ridiculously overpowered'? It had unusually high strafe, but it wasn't like you couldn't hit it like the Patriot... >.>
And indeed, welcome back, Chopper.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - Virus - 03-17-2009
' Wrote:You don't? Oh, wait, let me adjust my tone to yours.1: True.
Facts :
Phantoms don't have any ZOI limitations.
Phantoms don't have to ask traders for a fee or drop, they just shoot. And kill. And become Chuckies.
Phantoms don't have to write a word in system chat before they attack. Why? Because their RP is to kill.
And these aren't my words.
2: Perhaps true, but will still have to break the third clause you seem to have written for us.
3: UNTRUE. We have to adhere to this rule just as much as the next person. We can't just float up behind people and blast them silently. Whatever gave you that idea? Sure, it's what we would do if Sirius were reality, but it isn't. We have to be the obvious bad-guy who yells "I'm breaking into your house" when he enters.
Quote:In your time? Who said anything about your time?At any one time, we've had a total of two cats, max. We are no longer planning on using them (except for Zealot's, who has a precedent). I was one of those two Taiidans, yes. This was because I like those "heavier" bombers, I guess. In any case, the Taiidan felt good when I flew it and was considered to be a Civilian ship, open to all. If it wasn't, I would not have flown it. As such, I have yet to be getting rid of mine but I will be. Probably for a Waran.
I know for a fact that Dboy had a Catamaran, and I know that he wasn't kicked out.
I also know that Zelot had a Catamaran, and I can guess that he wasn't the one who was kicked out.
I know that frozen had a Catamaran, and I really don't know if he was the one who was kicked out.
That's 3 already.
You had only one Taiidan? I know that Dboy (Desecrator character) had one, and you just said you had another.
That's 2? Yeah, 2.
You want to know how many cats and Taiidans we've had total? OK. We've had... Four. Three red, one regular. One was mine, as I was testing out different bombers, had it few only a few weeks. One was DBoys's, one was Gloom's. Now we have one regular Cat. As for Taiidans... We had two. One was DBoy's, one was mine. I liked the way the ship looked and flew so I kept it.
Oh yeah, DBoy isn't on Discovery anymore.
Quote:All I wanted to say is that you can't ask for better equipment because it fits your RP and because you are outnumbered.
Even if you do have better equipment it should be close to others.
It shouldn't be 5% better then the best regular gun (Kraken) because then it will be 50% better then some crappy Hellfurry.
We never ASKED for better equipment. We asked for equipment. We got guns, the Raven Claw, and whatever no one else wanted. Our guns may be too powerful, but no one in the faction likes them (I like Krakens and Dark Blossom codes, since my ex-Outcast has a reason to use those guns). Blame the developers for whatever extra damage they had, all we did was give some base stats that were admittedly, probably on the (very) high side. We just wanted our own tech so people would stop complaining about us using other faction's equipment (as you were doing JUST ABOVE).
So a few of us enjoyed flying the stereotypically stronger bombers... Is that really a problem? If I found out that I enjoyed flying the Bounty Hunter Bomber the best, I wouldn't try to get one on my Phantom. I might get one for my Merc, though. Most of my ships are actually sub-par ships (regarding 4.84 stats, don't know about now).
Everyone here should stop picking at our relatively minor faults and start thinking more positively. If you want to see some better role play from us in-game, make it obvious. Speak back, start praying, beg for your life. Tell us about your wife and kids. It won't keep us from killing you eventually, but it will make the whole experience better all around... And if you're on the bad side of the law, do try to spark a conversation.
Superior Phantom ships/weapons - farmerman - 03-17-2009
As a possible solution, what about just factionalized Class 10 guns, which would be unique. That gives them their own advanced technology while allowing things to be completely balanced. (Plus making sure the adequate class guns are filled, as I asked for various factions previously, so it's only fair.) Or a factionalized torpedo/CD on top of that - there are plenty of ways to show them as being technologically advanced while being fully balanced. Just keep it all balanced!