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+---- Thread: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? (/showthread.php?tid=120885)
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - nOmnomnOm - 11-15-2014
(11-15-2014, 09:51 AM)R.I.P. Wrote: Salvager has been the same for years, i see no other reason for this except someone lost a fight or did not manage to kill one and are wanting nerfed, otherwise why has no one brought it up till now?
I know the main reasoning behind the high hull and regen count is mining in high radiation areas that cause most to use a lot of bots, cause not everyone can afford big armor or want to use up the space.
Cuz lyth.
The salvager... What can I say...its a very versitile ship. The junkers also lack a bomber and before lacked a junker GB so this ship was great.
And its a hitable ship. Will take a few hits yes but so will a lux liner and a bison.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - MÃmir - 11-15-2014
y'all are forgetting turret steer.
no transport has been the same since then.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Sath - 11-15-2014
(11-15-2014, 10:00 AM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: Cuz lyth.
The salvager... What can I say...its a very versitile ship. The junkers also lack a bomber and before lacked a junker GB so this ship was great.
And its a hitable ship. Will take a few hits yes but so will a lux liner and a bison.
Bisons and Lux liners dont have these many regens and usually, their guns are not as OP as solaris guns. You can never comapre a salvager with these two.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Haste - 11-15-2014
On the subject of piracy survivability, the biggest difference is that Liners thrust some 30 m/s slower (I'm not sure exactly how much) than Salvagers.
Which means Salvagers get to a base several minutes earlier than a Liner would, while having more firepower and regens.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Dane Summers - 11-15-2014
I stand by the idea that the Thruster Buff is unneeded and is the unbalancing factor.
Removing it would solve the issue, without screwing with an already great ship, nerfing the price of the only commodity junkers can mine, and would make killing Salvagers easier for whoever feels like they need to.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Karst - 11-15-2014
Removing the thruster buff isn't really part of this thread, because it affects transports in general.
Unless you want to bring down the Salvager to large transport thrust speed - which isn't unreasonable I'd say, but being the only ship with gunboat turrets and that speed makes it unique, and we all love uniqueness.
It's going to need a major reduction in regens to be comparable to other transports.
Since somebody mentioned liners and Bisons - they are not really comparable.
Neither approaches the effective range of the Salvager; liners get closest but compared to a Salvager are massive, slow, and weak.
See here.
Salvager - 11 639
Raba - 10 914
Renzu Liner - 10 675
Luxury Liner, Pilgrim Liner - 10 008
Lucullus - 9 708
Hegemon - 9 635
Bretonian Liner - 9 598
Passenger Liner - 9 007
Mastodon, Golem - 8 940
Shetland - 8 672
Bison - 8 493
Shishapangma - 8 404
Colossus - 8 135
Shire - 8 046
Uruz - 8 010
Akegata - 7 957
Corsair Train - 7 331
Raba - 10 914
Renzu Liner - 10 675
Luxury Liner, Pilgrim Liner - 10 008
Lucullus - 9 708
Hegemon - 9 635
Bretonian Liner - 9 598
Passenger Liner - 9 007
Mastodon, Golem - 8 940
Shetland - 8 672
Bison - 8 493
Shishapangma - 8 404
Colossus - 8 135
Shire - 8 046
Uruz - 8 010
Akegata - 7 957
Corsair Train - 7 331
Taken from this thread.
Neither battletransports nor liners have a combination of speed, base hull, and regens comparable to the Salvager. You can play around with those values as I did and you'll get numbers like this:
Salvager with 700 bb - 11 066
Salvager with 650 bb - 10 494
Salvager with 149 thrust speed - 10 907
Salvager with 139 thrust speed - 10 175
Salvager with 100 000 base armor - 10 494
Salvager with 500 bb - 8 777
Salvager with 650 bb, 149 thrust speed - 9 834
Salvager with 600 bb, 120 000 base armor - 9 158
Salvager with 650 bb - 10 494
Salvager with 149 thrust speed - 10 907
Salvager with 139 thrust speed - 10 175
Salvager with 100 000 base armor - 10 494
Salvager with 500 bb - 8 777
Salvager with 650 bb, 149 thrust speed - 9 834
Salvager with 600 bb, 120 000 base armor - 9 158
So nobody can claim taking a couple bots away will ruin the ship.
Take away 50, and it's still the most survivable ship bar none - not even the Raba.
Take away 100, and its survivability will only be exceeded by the massive, slow, transport-gun-armed Renzu (assuming the Raba gets a similar treatment).
Take away 100 bots AND bring its thrust speed down to large transport levels, and it's STILL more survivable than everything except a handful of liners (again assuming the Raba is also nerfed).
So please, before you claim its survivability is "comparable" to battletransports or liners, look at the actual numbers. And this doesn't even take into account that it's also smaller than battletransports and liners AND has far superior weaponry!
Edit: Here's another funny number for you: the formula used above creates a comparative value, since it does not / can not account for shields.
But if you put in the numbers, you'll find a HauIV Salvager will thrust more than 22k against a Waran's energy cannons even with its shields turned off the entire time.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Badperson - 11-15-2014
Hmm.
NOT ALL SALVAGER PILOTS USE SOLARIS AND HAU IV.
I have seen a ton of them using AU VIII and Charon or some other slow gun. Also, it's actually not that hard to kill with a bomber or something. You can kill it with a Pirate Transport.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Karst - 11-15-2014
(11-15-2014, 05:52 PM)Badperson Wrote: Hmm.
NOT ALL SALVAGER PILOTS USE SOLARIS AND HAU IV.
I have seen a ton of them using AU VIII and Charon or some other slow gun. Also, it's actually not that hard to kill with a bomber or something.
Irrelevant.
"Not all Ranseur pilots remember to buy regens. We should buff the Ranseur because some people fly them without bots and bats!"
Ships are balanced according to their potential, not the way some people use them.
Quote:You can kill it with a Pirate Transport.
No kidding. Point is, you could kill any other transport faster than a Salvager, with a Ptrans.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Sath - 11-15-2014
That is like, for example, giving VHFs two or three missile slots and saying "NOT ALL VHF USE 2/3 MISSILES". Though some people would be saints and don't use them, they are still considered OP due to the people that use them (the reason for them using it is, the 2/3 missile slots existing in the first place).
I have not come across many salvagers using any other gun apart from 1 or 2 mining arrays and the rest being solaris with a missile or full solaris.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Badperson - 11-15-2014
(11-15-2014, 06:03 PM)Karst Wrote:(11-15-2014, 05:52 PM)Badperson Wrote: Hmm.
NOT ALL SALVAGER PILOTS USE SOLARIS AND HAU IV.
I have seen a ton of them using AU VIII and Charon or some other slow gun. Also, it's actually not that hard to kill with a bomber or something.
Irrelevant.
"Not all Ranseur pilots remember to buy regens. We should buff the Ranseur because some people fly them without bots and bats!"
Ships are balanced according to their potential, not the way some people use them.
Quote:You can kill it with a Pirate Transport.
No kidding. Point is, you could kill any other transport faster than a Salvager, with a Ptrans.
Well, thing is, it will still put out less DPS if attacked by something bigger.
And even if there is potential, it seems like none when nobody acknowledges it by using 1 set of specific guns.