+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+---- Forum: Discovery Mod Balance (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=31)
+---- Thread: Can we please change the snub changes back? (/showthread.php?tid=147221)
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Backo - 03-01-2017
(03-01-2017, 12:54 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Of course you do, but as you belong to the ones who are good at pvp, you might be as well leaning towards the "no missiles please" side of the argument.
Actually I have no problem with missiles either, if I could shoot torpedoes into people running I could very well shoot missiles too.
EDIT:
Ask yourself this: How long will you last if 4 good players are on you with missiles equipped?
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Curios - 03-01-2017
Lets face it Jack, you simply want an easy pew for yourself.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Kaze - 03-01-2017
To be honest, missile or torp based builds isn't a hassle. #pressE4cd.
<3
<3
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Jack_Henderson - 03-01-2017
(03-01-2017, 12:58 PM)Bloodl1ke Wrote: Actually I have no problem with missiles either, if I could shoot torpedoes into people running I could very well shoot missiles too.
EDIT:
Ask yourself this: How long will you last if 4 good players are on you with missiles equipped?
Just that torpedos do not hit in chase fights. And torps are a thing of the past, too. So... why are we having this conversation?
And... how long would I last? About 50 % of what I last now. That would mean... less than 2 minutes in average in any fight. So... < 4 minutes on stupid full dodge... or 2... for me as the target that is called first normally. It would not be much of a difference, tbh. Fun factor is almost zero anyway. There is a reason why I avoid pvping in anything smaller than a Cruiser when I can.
A ridiculously unbalanced playing field favouring the good pvpers and marginalizing normal/bad ones (often to a degree that does not even let them contribute to a team's effort in group fights) is one of them.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Backo - 03-01-2017
Thing is, Jack, when the Aux slot still had torp and when missiles were still (pre-aux update) a thing I noticed most of the newbies didn't know how to use those either and pro players knew how to abuse them really well. I personally am for the return of both missiles and torps but I see them as yet another tool for good players to easily take down newbies that still haven't grasped the mechanics in fights. The only thing they really did well was shorten the time snub fights took to finish. Balance wise they never made the playing field any more equal.
Also you're highly overestimating the number of really good pvpers out there. The majority of people you fight are still somewhat average.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Epo - 03-01-2017
Tho the thing that pros knew better how to use them doesn't justify removing something that has been around since *vanila* just because so. The thing is, with those missiles, a newbie could deshield a pros in 10% of his pews, while nowdays, it got degraded heavily making noobs unable to even hit them. Like who cares you could get killed that way? You will still die to the pros, but you'll do more in most cases leading to more fun from the overall pew.
tl : dr Jack is right.
Yet, I must admit that I appreciate your work, Devs, just I can't agree with removing something what's been around since forever just for the sake of fixing something that wasn't broken at all.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Yaoquizque - 03-01-2017
Instead of antagonizing the so called pvp menace people, why not taking this as an incentive to promote training among the ranks of your faction, and especially out of conn as an inrp opportunity? Why not asking those people for help, even? Not everyone is an unreasonable blue reaper.
That said, I don't think this VHFs buff was necessary at all. If anything, HFs should have received some love, since they get overshadowed by VHF anytime in the day due to better survivability and firepower of the latter. Some HFs almost have the same turn rate as VHFs, even. So what gives?
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Kaze - 03-01-2017
So basically you get focused a lot. Kudos, it means you're important in the leadership and capability of your group. Happens/Happened to me, to Wesker, to a lot of good pvp'ers as you put it. Always cut the head of the snake, or remove its fangs. So, congrats! You're a good pvp'er.
Snub fighting will always be about the aim, the movement, the intelligence and overall skill. It's a playing field that ain't easy without countless hours of practice, training and a lot of dying (and still it isn't easy when you get to that point). My advice to anyone that wants to be better in snub pvp is probably the same advice cap pilots follow, until they get to the point they are.
Undock and die. Rinse, repeat.
I personally feel nothing regarding to missiles/torps coming back or not. Seriously, I feel that there are bigger issues in snubs than that, but as I said, if they come back, it won't be a hassle. I'll do what I always done since the first nerf I witnessed when I was a noob in .85.
I'll adapt and keep on flying snubs, because that's what I like to fly.
<3
Snub fighting will always be about the aim, the movement, the intelligence and overall skill. It's a playing field that ain't easy without countless hours of practice, training and a lot of dying (and still it isn't easy when you get to that point). My advice to anyone that wants to be better in snub pvp is probably the same advice cap pilots follow, until they get to the point they are.
Undock and die. Rinse, repeat.
I personally feel nothing regarding to missiles/torps coming back or not. Seriously, I feel that there are bigger issues in snubs than that, but as I said, if they come back, it won't be a hassle. I'll do what I always done since the first nerf I witnessed when I was a noob in .85.
I'll adapt and keep on flying snubs, because that's what I like to fly.
<3
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Jack_Henderson - 03-01-2017
It is a fact that a group of bad/below-average players (normally playing on my side) could have some impact on stronger groups by just having even the worst pvpers equip a missile and fire it. They still died fast, but they could "contribute to the team's performance", which a majority of players in snubs cannot do at the moment. It is the worst feeling when you realized you could add nothing at all. I encourage you to play on a bad team in group fights - jump on my TS channel generally.
Missiles were an equalizer. A necessary one.
Taking them out was a remarkably bad choice by some pvp aces who were annoyed by them.
And on "aces would use them": aces would stick with the mini razor that does not run out of ammo in many cases. Because for them, they do most damage that way (they do not die anyway due to pro dodging), so ammo based weapons make a lot less sense.
But if you are a noob who knows he dies anyway fast once targetted and will never get a blue, you can also use your limited time to do something that might help your team. This has the benefit that you do not look back at the fight saying "Ok, I was useless. I'm not going to throw myself into fights again". Exactly this is what I hear a lot after fights, especially in group engagements.
That feeling is at least partially responsible for more and more caps, and the Solaris treatment of snubs (which is also horrible, and ruins it even more).
The solution is so easy, and I do not know why it has not been taken a long time before.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - sasapinjic - 03-01-2017
(03-01-2017, 01:16 PM)Bloodl1ke Wrote: Thing is, Jack, when the Aux slot still had torp and when missiles were still (pre-aux update) a thing I noticed most of the newbies didn't know how to use those either and pro players knew how to abuse them really well.
Thats the two-edged sword for Pro Players , if they kill newbie with double missile/torpedo trick , they actually show newbie how to do it ! xd
Once killed like that , was enough for me to learn how to do it to !