+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Player Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=244)
+---- Forum: Official Faction Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=245)
+----- Forum: Official Faction Creation Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=134)
+------ Forum: Approved Faction Creation Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=136)
+------ Thread: Queen Carina's Privateers (/showthread.php?tid=24900)
Queen Carina's Privateers - Drake - 09-07-2009
' Wrote:So, you came to the table with invalid suggestions and then expected the CoZ to guess you were being serious and wanted the CoZ to come up with counter-proposals?I expected negotiating. I didn't get any.
(Sounds like you are just covering yourself because you wanted the meetings to fail.)
Queen Carina's Privateers - bluntpencil2001 - 09-07-2009
Basically, we made ridiculous demands, expecting to get less than half of them. We'd get what we really wanted, and the Zoners would save face publicly. At least, that's what we expected.
It would be sort of like the Libyans when they pretended to be developing nuclear weapons, just so the West could score a PR coup by having them dismantle their non-existent WMD project in order to be accepted into the fold as no longer being a rogue state. Everyone wins.
Whether we are the Libyans or the West is, of course, a matter of opinion.
I believe that we are being punished because we were told, ooRP by the admins, to compromise in our RP. The Zoners were told to compromise too in the same notice. We did compromise, much more than I would have liked to. The Zoners did not, but have not been forced to by the admins, in spite of being told to.
Queen Carina's Privateers - reisiger_duke - 09-07-2009
' Wrote:Basically, we made ridiculous demands, expecting to get less than half of them. We'd get what we really wanted, and the Zoners would save face publicly. At least, that's what we expected.Yes, you made ridiculous demands... so ridiculous that you knew that not a single one - apart from not using blanket bounties - would be accepted as is, which is not even worth being considered a way to start negotiations.
Given, if all that nonsense about the QCP talking for other factions is cut out, in the end it all revolves around the NFZ, and you made your concerns about it being abused clear.
But then as a response you got told by our representative what the council of Zoners would and wouldn't accept, about in the same tone as your list of demands was written...
' Wrote:I expected negotiating. I didn't get any.You yourself argued that diplomacy is about reaching a common middle-ground.
As I see it, all that happened so far was that both sides made clear their initial stance, with the only thing worth talking about were your concerns about the NFZ abuse... something that concerns the Council of Zoners aswell.
Instead on working on that point - i.e. to work on a revision that addresses that abuse - you choose to unilaterally declare the NFZ something you'd never accept - with it being about the one thing the CoZ certainly cannot make exceptions for - call us hypocrites and constantly refer to...
' Wrote:I believe that we are being punished because we were told, ooRP by the admins, to compromise in our RP. The Zoners were told to compromise too in the same notice. We did compromise, much more than I would have liked to. The Zoners did not, but have not been forced to by the admins, in spite of being told to.... which I find very amusing, considering the 'only' real compromise the QCP would have had to agree to was to adhere to the NFZ.
Now that this is out of the way... I agree with Jinx on the one condition that is required to get official: "to be beneficial for the server community and the overall gameplay"
- I like the idea behind the Privateer ID, as it is a logical step to sabotage an enemies countries economy.
.
- I don't mind either to get stopped by a privateer in Kusari or Tau space and getting asked a few questions on where to the cargo I carry goes to... maybe even have an involuntary escort asking for a small fee, or getting plain hijacked to a bretonian base where the cargo can be sold for a profit.
This adds RP and excitement... will we get through Kusari space when hijacked, or will the KNF show up?, etc.
.
- What I don't get is your current attitude to declare any non-Kusari ship (and especially Zoner ships) transporting goods through Kusari space to be plain and simple a kill-on-sight target... regardless of where the cargo is going to.
There are more than enough Liberty and even Rheinland factions dealing with Kusari to make this stance utterly unbelievable, as you'd have to attack those factions wherever you'd meet them aswell, resulting in pretty unfavourable diplomatic fall-out for 'your country'.
.
- This leads us to your 'excuse' to still use the Privateer ID and the BAF IFF for your ships:
Officially:
QCP are renegades in exile over which the crown has no more control.
Unofficially:
None believes the Official Excuse... as you still use (old) BAF ships (regardless of them needing spare parts from BAF suppliers) and equipment, along with an ID and IFF that would imply you working for the Bretonian government and answering to it.
Now is QCP still about being Privateers?
Is this still within the reason the Privateer ID was created for?
Or is it about being able to blow up "bretonians favourite enemy of the month" while conveniently you're the one defining who that is?
By your 'logic' in picking targets, you should sabotage tradelanes and jumpgates in Kusari to cripple their economy... while blowing up Ageira for supporting them with repair-crews to fix those.
From my point of view, the QCP should use neither the BAF IFF nor the Privateer ID:
- You do not answer to the Crown anymore, so getting new and valid BAF IFF's is very questionable.
- Being exiled and denounced as comming pirates, you no longer have valid letters of marquise needed to call yourself privateers. Hence the use of the Privateer ID makes no sense.
Get a Freelancer IFF along with a Pirate ID and leave the BAF IFF + Privateer ID to those actually following the crowns orders.
Queen Carina's Privateers - bluntpencil2001 - 09-07-2009
Yet again, subtlety is lost on some people.
The QCP's letters of marque are still valid. The government simply deny this. It's called lying.
Queen Carina's Privateers - Doc Holliday - 09-07-2009
Well, if you're willing to throw out the ridiculous demands and work on things that are more realistic, I'm still willing to sit and talk.
Queen Carina's Privateers - bluntpencil2001 - 09-07-2009
Go and make an offer, then, sah. We were hoping we'd receive one.:(
Queen Carina's Privateers - Andrew_Bonesovich - 09-07-2009
' Wrote:Yes, you made ridiculous demands... so ridiculous that you knew that not a single one - apart from not using blanket bounties - would be accepted as is, which is not even worth being considered a way to start negotiations.
Given, if all that nonsense about the QCP talking for other factions is cut out, in the end it all revolves around the NFZ, and you made your concerns about it being abused clear.
As I see it, all that happened so far was that both sides made clear their initial stance, with the only thing worth talking about were your concerns about the NFZ abuse... something that concerns the Council of Zoners aswell.
Instead on working on that point - i.e. to work on a revision that addresses that abuse - you choose to unilaterally declare the NFZ something you'd never accept - with it being about the one thing the CoZ certainly cannot make exceptions for - call us hypocrites and constantly refer to...
... which I find very amusing, considering the 'only' real compromise the QCP would have had to agree to was to adhere to the NFZ.
First off all, negotiations usually go that way. Both sides make ridiculous demands and then reach compromise. Only thing QCP insisted on was the NFZ part, but seriously, why is it -that- important? What would you lose? The NFZs in house space, or very close to it, are complete nonsense. Houses dont have to care about them, it doesnt benefit them in any way. House militaries dont use them, only pirates and bounty hunters do use Freeports frequently.
Please, just dont start that BS about rolling in with your lolcaps. As said before many times, Zoners arent trained nor able to wage a war on a house.
Quote:Now that this is out of the way... I agree with Jinx on the one condition that is required to get official: "to be beneficial for the server community and the overall gameplay"
Everyone has a different view point on what is beneficial. Privateers have great RP possibilites, believe it or not.
Quote:I like the idea behind the Privateer ID, as it is a logical step to sabotage an enemies countries economy.
.
I don't mind either to get stopped by a privateer in Kusari or Tau space and getting asked a few questions on where to the cargo I carry goes to... maybe even have an involuntary escort asking for a small fee, or getting plain hijacked to a bretonian base where the cargo can be sold for a profit.
This adds RP and excitement... will we get through Kusari space when hijacked, or will the KNF show up?, etc.
.
What I don't get is your current attitude to declare any non-Kusari ship (and especially Zoner ships) transporting goods through Kusari space to be plain and simple a kill-on-sight target... regardless of where the cargo is going to.
There are more than enough Liberty and even Rheinland factions dealing with Kusari to make this stance utterly unbelievable, as you'd have to attack those factions wherever you'd meet them aswell, resulting in pretty unfavourable diplomatic fall-out for 'your country'.
We actually pirate Liberty and Rheinland transports when theyre in Kusari. Anything that enters Kusari gets our attention. That was the reason why Bretonian government exiled us, because QCP were overreacting, they distanced from their actions.
In short, Privateers are paranoid patriotic lot, and dont believe anyone who enters Kusari. When you deal with Corsairs, Bretonia's second greatest enemy, we believe you even less.
Quote:This leads us to your 'excuse' to still use the Privateer ID and the BAF IFF for your ships:
Officially:
QCP are renegades in exile over which the crown has no more control.
Unofficially:
None believes the Official Excuse... as you still use (old) BAF ships (regardless of them needing spare parts from BAF suppliers) and equipment, along with an ID and IFF that would imply you working for the Bretonian government and answering to it.
We use them because we were supported by Bretonia before. Regarding the spare parts, I have one word for you:
Junkers
The ID doesnt state that we are working for Bretonian government. The fact its called "Bretonian Privateer ID" just means we are Bretonian origin, not supported by them. The BAF Guard IFF is somewhat inconvenient sometimes, but it reflects our diplomacy well enough and makes us look red to most factions (if you are not doing missions for BAF on purpose to get trough guard system)
Quote: Mostly the last point is something I consider to be in contradiction "to be beneficial for the server community and the overall gameplay", as you took the Privateer ID and the starting RP for them being a wing of the BAF and turned them into a "free-for-shooting-up-whatever-I-like" and justified that by your RP.
Now is QCP still about being Privateers?
Is this still within the reason the Privateer ID was created for?
Or is it about being able to blow up "bretonians favourite enemy of the month" while conveniently you're the one defining who that is?
By your 'logic' in picking targets, you should sabotage tradelanes and jumpgates in Kusari to cripple their economy... while blowing up Ageira for supporting them with repair-crews to fix those.[/color]
From my point of view, the QCP should use neither the BAF IFF nor the Privateer ID:As your faction is very small and declared to be pirates, why not actually take that step?
- You do not answer to the Crown anymore, so getting new and valid BAF IFF's is very questionable.
- Being exiled and denounced as comming pirates, you no longer have valid letters of marquise needed to call yourself privateers. Hence the use of the Privateer ID makes no sense.
Get a Freelancer IFF along with a Pirate ID and leave the BAF IFF + Privateer ID to those actually following the crowns orders.
Most of this was answered above. But, we dont shoot anyone who we decide to shoot. Yes, as you said, we justify it with our RP. Just as everyone else is justifying his actions with RP. If we have a RP reason to shoot someone, we do it. We have definitely a reason to shoot Corsairs. Corsairs hide on planet mostly owned by Zoners. They hide in NFZs. We have no benefit from your no fire zones, so we ignore them. Simple as that.
Queen Carina's Privateers - Drake - 09-07-2009
' Wrote:... which I find very amusing, considering the 'only' real compromise the QCP would have had to agree to was to adhere to the NFZ.Near the end of the 'negotiations' I flat out asked what the Zoners had to offer. If we were to adhere to the NFZ laws, what would we get out of it? We aren't going to do it for nothing, which is apparently what the Zoners wanted. That's not a compromise, that's the QCP caving to the will of the Zoners, which just isn't going to happen. If you want us to obey the NFZ laws, you need to offer something valuable (monetarily or otherwise) to us.
Queen Carina's Privateers - darthbeck - 09-07-2009
' Wrote:[*]Being exiled and denounced as comming pirates, you no longer have valid letters of marquise needed to call yourself privateers. Hence the use of the Privateer ID makes no sense.
[/list]As your faction is very small and declared to be pirates, why not actually take that step?
Get a Freelancer IFF along with a Pirate ID and leave the BAF IFF + Privateer ID to those actually following the crowns orders.[/color]
so your saying we should just be normal pirates instead of being awsome semi bretonian basterds?
i mean, we got the privateer ID put into exsistence BECAUSE, the pirate ID was unsuitable for what we wanted. and because we had earned it.
and who needs a valid letter when you have a fully charged supernova?
Queen Carina's Privateers - Magoo! - 09-07-2009
Quote:First off all, negotiations usually go that way. Both sides make ridiculous demands and then reach compromise. Only thing QCP insisted on was the NFZ part, but seriously, why is it -that- important? What would you lose? The NFZs in house space, or very close to it, are complete nonsense. Houses dont have to care about them, it doesnt benefit them in any way. House militaries dont use them, only pirates and bounty hunters do use Freeports frequently.I'll help you out, chief.
Cork.
"Zonoez, y u no w4nt ppl 2 shewt neer ur houz?! lul!"
Good lord, man, it seems rather self-explanatory. We don't want people vaporizing one another by our front door. As we said all those weeks ago, if you'd have robbed blind and killed those people 6K away from GC, none of this would have happened. So, to spank that pony that the QCP so often ride, we don't want our homes to turn into space debris or a nuclear waste land. I'm sure you wouldn't fancy thugs riding down your street with 22's (rims) and Uzis doing drive-by shootings just because your windows were in one piece.
The NFZ is who we are. Not only is it stupid to allow men with Uzis to break your windows, its stupid to allow men with Uzis to shoot men with .45's because their great-uncles-third-stepsister stepped on their cats tail.
... And the Uzi men wanted the bread.
Quote:Please, just dont start that BS about rolling in with your lolcaps. As said before many times, Zoners arent trained nor able to wage a war on a house.A House that is being crippled by another House, mind you. But that matters little in the grand scheme. A one legged man is much easier to push down.
Quote:They hide in NFZs. We have no benefit from your no fire zones, so we ignore them. Simple as that.Cooooork. Hi-ho, Silver, away!