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+--- Thread: Admin Notice : Faction Warned (/showthread.php?tid=24901)
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - guitarguy - 08-19-2009
A quick thought:
This whole thing started with a bounty on Zoners because they more or less support the Corsairs. Now, under normal circumstances, a Bretonian loyalist pirate faction would be justified in raiding O-49, but, with the Bretonians at war with Kusari, the logical priority target is Kusari shipping, not Corsairs and certainly not Zoners. That being said, bringing a zoner capital ship in Dublin is asking for it. So I believe that there is fault with both parties here, and admitting it is the first step to resolving it.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Elsdragon - 08-21-2009
So......HJow is it all coming
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - darthbeck - 08-21-2009
elsdragon, this does not need bumping. dimplomacy is "coming along" if you wish to say that.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Doc Holliday - 08-21-2009
Discussions continue. Patience, people. It probably will take some time.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - bluntpencil2001 - 08-25-2009
If negotiations fail due to Zoners refusing to negotiate, I'm going back to bombing their ships, aight?
I'm tempted to make accusations of metagaming, in fact, in the classical sense. The Zoner players know that we have been forced to negotiate, although, in RP, we don't care what comes out on top, effectively giving us control of negotiations.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Dab - 08-25-2009
' Wrote:If negotiations fail due to Zoners refusing to negotiate, I'm going back to bombing their ships, aight?When you don't give the Zoners an acceptable deal that they can actually take without getting themselves in further trouble with other factions, you're gearing the negotiations to fail. You make accusations of metagaming, but that's exactly what you are doing when you give them something they have no choice but to decline and then say you'll go back to hostile status if they don't accept it. And that's an OOC threat, not in in-RP one.
The QCP were made with the single purpose of disrupting Kusari's trade. In all seriousness, Omega-49 should be considered out of your ZoI and sanctionable via the rules, just as a Hessian would be sanctioned if it were pirating in Kyushu.. I've had countless discussions with you on Skype, and I know your vendetta against the Zoners, even if you refuse to acknowledge it to others.. Or yourself. But this should not be affecting a faction's in-RP activities to the point where you are no longer fulfilling your faction's in-RP goals.
Yes.. Zoners allow Corsairs in Omega-49. Just as Bretonia allows Outcasts in Bretonia.. Is Liberty jumping all over you? No.. It's not in their space, they don't care.. So why exactly does a group of privateers dedicated to interdicting Kusari commerce care what happens in Omega-49, which is on the opposite side of Bretonia from their interdiction operations.. And why would they stop going after their war enemy to shoot a few civilians that aren't harming Bretonia?
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Drake - 08-25-2009
In negotiations, both sides start with a totally unacceptable deal, then negotiate until they reach a mutually-disappointing middle-ground which they can agree on. The QCP-proposed treaty was never expected to be well-received nor completely acceptable to the Zoners. The Zoners have not yet replied with a more acceptable treaty, though the unofficial draft I was shown was as unacceptable to the QCP as the QCP's treaty was to the Zoners.
However, during my discussions with BlueSpawn it has become apparent to us both that there will likely not be an acceptable middle-ground, since there are certain sticking points (point, really) which neither side will concede.
So, in all likelihood, the hostilities between the Zoners and the QCP will remain.
Edit: Edited.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - bluntpencil2001 - 08-25-2009
' Wrote:When you don't give the Zoners an acceptable deal that they can actually take without getting themselves in further trouble with other factions, you're gearing the negotiations to fail. You make accusations of metagaming, but that's exactly what you are doing when you give them something they have no choice but to decline and then say you'll go back to hostile status if they don't accept it. And that's an OOC threat, not in in-RP one.They were formed to interdict any hostile trade. And Outcasts aren't allowed in Bretonia.
The QCP were made with the single purpose of disrupting Kusari's trade. In all seriousness, Omega-49 should be considered out of your ZoI and sanctionable via the rules, just as a Hessian would be sanctioned if it were pirating in Kyushu.. I've had countless discussions with you on Skype, and I know your vendetta against the Zoners, even if you refuse to acknowledge it to others.. Or yourself. But this should not be affecting a faction's in-RP activities to the point where you are no longer fulfilling your faction's in-RP goals.
Yes.. Zoners allow Corsairs in Omega-49. Just as Bretonia allows Outcasts in Bretonia.. Is Liberty jumping all over you? No.. It's not in their space, they don't care.. So why exactly does a group of privateers dedicated to interdicting Kusari commerce care what happens in Omega-49, which is on the opposite side of Bretonia from their interdiction operations.. And why would they stop going after their war enemy to shoot a few civilians that aren't harming Bretonia?
The Privateer ID allows Omegas, and Planet Gran Canaria's infocard specifically mentions a growing Bretonian presence.
The Privateers are making a point, which people seem to be missing.
We made demands. Instead of negotiating to what we really wanted, the Zoners simply said 'no'. I was sitting waiting for a diluted proposal sent back to me, but got an utter rejection instread.
In negotiations you have to give the other side something they want. We offered something, namely not killing any more Juggernauts, and a reduction in our chaotic Omega operations (hail Eris). We were offered nothing in return.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - pbrione - 08-25-2009
Continue both with your negotiations. The Zoners do need to respond with genuine counter-propsals rather than just giving up. The Bretonian and Libertonian Governments will shortly be stepping forward with their own proposals to take advantage of the crisis which may coincidentally "unstick" your mutual sticking point whether either of you like it or not. I'm determined that a resolution to this issue will be reached, one way or another.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - lousal - 08-25-2009
' Wrote:If negotiations fail due to Zoners refusing to negotiate, I'm going back to bombing their ships, aight?
If there'd be something to negotiate about I'd agree instantly. Post the QCP's proposal in "Diplomatic Matters" to bring the negotiations forward. By now we have only unofficial parleys many of the CoZ players cannot accept as RP. The QCP group has been asked by our intermediary to publish the proposal on the forums, and untill now nothing happened. Where's the RP post containing the proposal? Take care of that rather than coercing a whole group to react on literally nothing.
Quote:I'm tempted to make accusations of metagaming, in fact, in the classical sense. The Zoner players know that we have been forced to negotiate, although, in RP, we don't care what comes out on top, effectively giving us control of negotiations.
Yes, control is even doing nothing. Pretty perverted, but alright, because you want to make everybody believe that you're interested in avoiding meta-gaming. So be it, I agree with condemning meta-gaming. Then you're surely interested in publishing the terms of the proposal you've forwarded to our intermediary. You mentioned seeing an unoffical draft of the CoZ's response. Currently, we consider that an unofficial response to an unoffical proposal. Submit an official proposal through diplomatic channels and we will respond in kind.