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+------ Thread: Judicial Order (/showthread.php?tid=93786)
RE: Judicial Order - EisenSeele - 03-04-2013
This channel was not addressed to you. You do not know of this communication, and you do not have the capability to use the channel.
It's probably not a good idea to admit that you are bounty hunters for the IC and that you hunt Rheinland ships for them.
RE: Judicial Order - Tyler - 03-04-2013
(03-04-2013, 08:24 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: This channel was not addressed to you. You do not know of this communication, and you do not have the capability to use the channel.
I've sent Logan an PM about this too. Regarding the following link, click here.
Quote:From 01/30/13
RE: To: Rheinland High Command
To: Major Siegfried Hermann
Rheinwehr Hauptflotte
From: Supreme Judge Logan
Deliberations are complete. The response shall be apportioned to the offending vessels. RNC-Konigstiger and RNC|MND-Gepard have both ambushed and destroyed Judicial vessels under flag of truce without provocation and without reason. Therefore both are declared Renegade. Aqua et igni interdictus. Any person or vessel found helping, supporting or protecting these declared enemies of the people shall share their fate. Res Judicata.
Honor Duty Justice
Supreme Judge Logan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We are not at war with Rheinland. The two renegade vessels are bountied by IC. We do hunt them. We do not hunt other Rheinland vessels UNLESS they fire upon us first. Some of them have. If this continues then the relationship between the Judges and Rheinland will have to be revisited.
Honor Justice Duty
Supreme Judge Logan
That's the message he posted in a secure transmission, from the following link:click here.
I quoted it above in case a moderator/admin deletes it for being invalid.
Just a tip for the Judges, Logan has my PM.
RE: Judicial Order - SummerMcLovin - 03-04-2013
The IC board has been good for you, let's you stretch the Eagle wings a bit. A few extra guns against the Outcasts is nice, although a little practice with bombers and knowing not to use Novas in asteroid fields (especially against agile cruisers) will also help
RE: Judicial Order - danny081 - 03-04-2013
(03-04-2013, 10:09 PM)SummerMcLovin Wrote: The IC board has been good for you, let's you stretch the Eagle wings a bit. A few extra guns against the Outcasts is nice, although a little practice with bombers and knowing not to use Novas in asteroid fields (especially against agile cruisers) will also help
Greetings,
Yes indeed the IC bounty board allow's us to spread and broaden our group a bit more, we are always happy to help, we will setup attack wings with bombers and fighters in the Tau systems to aid you against your fight with the outcasts, i think it's a win win situation for us both, we get bounties, you get no pirates constantly ambushing you for money, we will see you around, thank you again for your warm welcome, we are grateful for letting us use your base for repairs and to rest a little,
Safe Skies
Judge Alpha
RE: Judicial Order - Judge Logan - 03-04-2013
EisenSeele and Tyler are absolutely right, and I apologize to both. I was trying to prevent a war and my zeal for that overcame my good sense. Thank you for your input and PM Mr. Tyler. There shall be no recurrence.
Logan
RE: Judicial Order - JudgeYohance - 03-05-2013
I was rather disappointed that nobody came over the two hour period I made myself available to questions. I'll try to do it again next weekend but for the mean time, I'll try to see if I can get the questions I can understand and have not been answered elsewhere answered.
Quote:"After reading through your original writeup and many of the comments which have followed, I have some thoughts to share.
There are some things about the history portion. It does seem like the Second Era is far enough removed from the First Era and before that it could be seen as a separate faction entirely. Perhaps you could get the earlier portions mesh with the established history a bit better but then keep modern times as it is. I could certainly imagine a group might form with claims of lineage from older groups which may have since diverged into separate groups entirely. In particular, the aspects of gate technology and the role the LSF is known to play in connection to it. In particular, the parts with protection of jumpgates isn't that far removed from defense of jumpgate technology. Either the usage of that ID with the rp of being a particular subgroup (with more focused goals, also see below), or descent from such government authority (similar to the Dragons' claims, but Liberty-er) might work better."
• To bring order back to a chaotic universe
• To stem the tide of piracy against the civilian population
• To rebuild Tannhauser Gate and the great library of human history it once held
• To reunite the original four house in peace as our predecessors had seen
"They are kind of, well, super huge and broad. While they would sound good inrp, I think it'd be more effective if you had more specific and smaller goals. The Tannhauser Gate goal might be something you could actually work towards, but more specificity in your anti-piracy goals and some first steps toward reunion would make more sense. With short term, focused goals, it seems more Freelancer-y and more in line with a smaller inrp group (so long as you're sticking with FL ID).
As an example, I'll use the Gaians. While one of their major goals is stopping terraforming, they have the far more focused goals of stopping the Harris project, of stopping the Ayr project, and similar.
Maybe define some specific goals for and engage in more activities along the edge of Liberty? That would fit with the anti-piracy stance more than activities in NY, which should logically be pretty safe, even if things aren't quite balanced that way at present.
Anyway, a bit rambly, but hopefully it contains some helpful insight."
Someone who understands finally! Towards the goals, we did intentional aim for very board and near impossible goals for the dual purpose of inRP, it gives us a broader base to operate from and also gives me wiggle room for future RP connections to other groups. The RP as it currently stands is a history RP that gets us into the door of the standard lore currently running on the server. We have every intention of continuous expansion on the lore as actual events are conducted in server.
I am a huge fan of writing and conducting events in RP games where a physical event has a permanent impact on a groups actions. As an example, for the wars on the server, I would script certain specific battles created for the purpose of advancing a story.
As an example, I wrote one a couple months back that would in theory involve possible as much as the Council, BAF, GRN, GRP, Colonials and Outcasts as a scripted surprise push to knock the GRN out of several key areas with the primary goals being the BAF trying to retake Leeds and the Council punching a back door out of Gallia. I wrote the inRP story which took the role of a report being sent up the Council's chain of command as well as a ooRP explanation of what would be on the line server wise for the involved groups. Scripted agreements, battles, raids, full wars these are things I love to personally write up with clear rules on how the event is won and lost. I am hoping to use this in conjunction with groups we are in talks with to plan events to expand the group RP further.
Your right that rebuilding our station is likely to be the easiest of the short term elements of the goals which I already have some writing prepped towards, again using the connections we have already made. Our goals towards anti-piracy is not aimed so much as open war as much as finding a possible solution for some of them. Do not get me wrong, we are going to have to fight some of them. This is the reason why we had a bounty board established for us as the FL ID does not allow us to engage otherwise. it is a lofty goal on the best day but it has the nicety of a RP that I don't believe anyone currently has.
Quote:"Okay so, just gonna pop in here, leave you this, and feel ashamed of yourself. All of you on a single eagle. "
In response to this and the now almost 3 pages of posts connected to it, I have been ganked by every major pirate group and even a few military groups among my various ships on a variety of occasions. Sure I think when I have just a VHF and suddenly I have two destroyers, a pirate train, two fighters and a few bombers in front of me on a trade lane demanding my credits that this stinks (just to name a LR encounter my old trade ship had several months back). That said though, overwhelming numbers is a more then viable tactic employed by the majority of the groups on the server and while I hate being on the smaller side of them, I have never once thought it was poor form to do it.
Quote:" Okay so let me tell again. Ganking is 9v1, right? not 1v1. If you can't handle 1v1 stop bringing people here. Yesterday, i was 1v1, which i enjoyed and i wasn't going to kill any of the Judges, as i wanted some fun. But, you had to ruin it, and bring 8 more people which, with 1 line engaged me. If it wasn't for Leam, you'd be long gone."
The problem I have with this statement is the "I wasn't going to kill any of the Judges", in the RP universe, someone attacks you, you assume they intend to kill. If you want a straight one on one challenge then you should have sent a PM asking for a Conn. fight. Within RP, an attack on one of our members is equivalent to an attack on the organization and as such, it responds. Just as I would expect any organization to do.
Quote:"Seeing Tomb is within your roster, I have simple question.
If you attack Order in Omicron Lost (That's ZoI problem brought up before already), why are we considered "neutral" ("everyone not listed")? Please be consistent as to what are you trying to do because so far you appear to be just group of sellswords running around either for biggest money or like headless chickens all over the place.
If part of your "mission statement" (bringing order/peace/unity to Sirius) also includes desolate Omicron systems, unrelated to house space, you are not doing anything towards it. Your presence in systems like Omicron 99 is OORP at best. Even if you could pull out some information about Nomad system, how would you survive (actually worse: dumping your recruits for certain death literally in middle of Nomad infested space)"
I am personally not aware of any incident involving such an event.
In response to the O-99, again, it was an internally planed event as I stated before. Your right we dumped them into what could easily have been near certain death and then we planed a few traps along the way. We involved factions directly as little as possible because we wanted to see how they conduct themselves. It turned out quite beautifully from my perspective. For RP purposes it was a live fire, do or die test of their abilities. Each of our cadet classes can attest to the fact that I am a slight sadist when it comes to making things difficult for them.
There seems to be a very split view about on the use of the Conn. system. My view on it is it is a training system only. I have gotten just as many messages telling us to train only in "The virtual reality Conn system" and others who say "Your RP must be in normal space and Conn does not count as RP". I can't answer as to which is right or wrong on that one. All we can say is we use regular space when it is available and useful for the planed session and we use Conn. when we can't.
Quote:" maybe the Freelancer ID needs some adjustment:"
I am not sure the FL ID could be safely adjusted per se though I wish it could. The line that would solve a world of problems for us would have to be along the lines of
May engage targets hostile with the holder of this ID
As much as I would love this as it would not force us to need a bounty board to fight back. I can absolutely see a line like this or similar to it being rapidly abused. It would be difficult to claim an RP violation when all they had to say is "This guy was hostile to me so I shot at him". As it stands, just a few days ago in one of my alt ships, a LN primary tried to tell me he had "heard bad things about me" while I was in a FL ship that had only existed for about a week and had been in only one battle against a pirate who had attacked me first. Now nothing happened but it was clear it was an attempt to start a false RP that would lead to combat. With it being that easy to start a RP related incident, an adjustment to the current ID could cause problems with sanction reporting.
The IC setup is on the forums and as to meeting us. We actually spend quite a bit of time in Kusari as well as part of those IC agreements, perhaps you'll run into us up there.
Quote:"Seeing you haven't answered my previous post I'll ask again:
In what manner are you ANY different in-game behavior than any BHG? What stops you from being an indy BHG group without the bit-shady part. I fail to see how you require the official status to go on with your lives and what anything new you bring to the server.
It's a question you should also ask yourselves, since right now you are acting purely like any other BHG."
I think Dennis just said it right but if it is not clear, to put it blunt, until such time as the ID gets a change or we have one of our own, the only way to fight back is to have a bounty board letting us fight back under some form of RP. The best justification I can give RP wise at the moment is we are trying to build our cash reserves back up while remaining with the bounds of the "local" law.
The server laws and ID restrictions leave us in a bind Pancakes. We can't bring out the full RP because the risk of injury to the server laws. We are right now working the best we can from those confines, that means using what means are available to the ID for the time being.
If you want something that we can do within our RP, how about something more targeted at you. It is quite likely that in the next update (if what I am told is true) GRN will begin it's war with the LN. Right now the Judges have no presence in Gallia, nor do we see them as part of the original goals. The RP I have written was aimed at the likely hood that our goals and the Gallia Monarchy will not be compatible and will likely lead us to hostility with them (of course this can change but for the sake of this conversation, assume it happened this way).
Now stop me if I am wrong but my understanding is you at the least are with the Council (At the most, I was told you run it but I do not know if that is/was still the case). From RP, The Council while not large, has a significant force that can threaten the GRN at the rear while the bulk of their forces are committed to the invasion front. You also run hostilities with the OC do to a very vague situation that the OC attacked Council forces in O-80 (Again stop me if I am wrong but best I can tell from the reads, this was just in the Council RP and the OC simply have gone along with it leaving wide room on why they attacked you).
Now my perspective as a Judge, we have no direct relations with the OC primary group the 101st or yours but we are aware of both. As an outside third party, we can help negotiate a temporary truce on the assumption that the attack on your forces was because they saw you as invaders in their space. The Outcasts could sell weapons and equipment to the Council, while the OC are given a small base of operations in Council space which they can use to conduct raids on Gallia shipping. Lets face it, the Council already has precedent for allowing pirates to do just that as you work with the UC, Maquis and most importantly, the Gallic Brigands who already have limited relations with the OC.
This new relationship buys you renewed power, the OC a new hunting ground for supplies, and for us, a backdoor of information which we can use to advise the militaries on the other side of the war. We also gain relations with both the Council and OC which we can use towards our own goals later on. Everyone gains something on the short term and possibly on the long term. It also gives all our groups room to RP later on for further "war" activities and post war relations.
I came up with all of this in just an hour of quick reading over your faction RP's and a few forum items, this is a bare bones RP build. Now I could write this up as a mix of success, failure, etc depending on the actions of those involved but this is just one of many examples of what I can work with. More important, it is one of many examples of what the Judges as an outside, dedicated to peace, group working within the goals of a more united universe.
You ask what we can bring to Disco, this is an example of what we can bring and it is just a small one.
I hope this has answered some of the questions. It is getting hard to get through the flood at this point and for those who had legitimate points and questions I have missed, I apologize.
I will see if I can make another short Skype session next weekend and for those who were questioning, it was meant to be set as a conference call among those attending which I would have recorded and posted back to the forums with a detail guide on when certain questions were asked so people could look up specifics from the chat.
RE: Judicial Order - Thyrzul - 03-05-2013
(03-05-2013, 01:19 AM)JudgeYohance Wrote: Now stop me if I am wrong but my understanding is you at the least are with the Council (At the most, I was told you run it but I do not know if that is/was still the case). From RP, The Council while not large, has a significant force that can threaten the GRN at the rear while the bulk of their forces are committed to the invasion front. You also run hostilities with the OC do to a very vague situation that the OC attacked Council forces in O-80 (Again stop me if I am wrong but best I can tell from the reads, this was just in the Council RP and the OC simply have gone along with it leaving wide room on why they attacked you).
Now my perspective as a Judge, we have no direct relations with the OC primary group the 101st or yours but we are aware of both. As an outside third party, we can help negotiate a temporary truce on the assumption that the attack on your forces was because they saw you as invaders in their space. The Outcasts could sell weapons and equipment to the Council, while the OC are given a small base of operations in Council space which they can use to conduct raids on Gallia shipping. Lets face it, the Council already has precedent for allowing pirates to do just that as you work with the UC, Maquis and most importantly, the Gallic Brigands who already have limited relations with the OC.
This new relationship buys you renewed power, the OC a new hunting ground for supplies, and for us, a backdoor of information which we can use to advise the militaries on the other side of the war. We also gain relations with both the Council and OC which we can use towards our own goals later on. Everyone gains something on the short term and possibly on the long term. It also gives all our groups room to RP later on for further "war" activities and post war relations.
Outcasts deal with Cardamine and look at Gallia as a brand new market to spread their drugs. The Council highly dislikes them for this, and thus wages war with them to stop their influence getting into the Kingdom. Dealing with Cardamine is a huge part of the nature of the Maltese, and the perspective of The Council about it will not change, so it is unlikely that their relation will change much in the near future.
(This is pretty much the InRP reason, but I suspect OoRP reasons behind this too: basically the only enemies we had were the Gallic Royalty, authorities, not even the corporations, as we are The Council. When the GRN/GRP went inactive, the more trigger-happy members of The Council has been left without anything to shoot. To boost the activity on their part too, people back then had to find an other enemy. The Outcasts seemed to be perfect, given that back those days their activity was quite high, and that it can be well backed up InRP.)
And about dealing with "pirates", the UC are a maffia and we have no deals with them currently, Maquis are revolutionaries, same goals of us, different means to go by, and we have to rely on the Gallic Brigands due to financial reasons, as they have a significant presence on the Gallic black market. However, given our expansion to Sirius and the potential market Bretonia and Liberty provides us, I'm not sure our relations with the Brigands will last long (note however that this is still an assumption yet).
Given the points you listed, what you wrote could have been done, but you missed some key elements, by which it can't be done. Reading up a few things and actively taking part in the roleplay itself are two different things. However, if you intend to make contact with The Council in the future, feel free to do so.
Back on topic:
You said you are flying around for like a year already. Most of this time of yours you spent in Liberty. Why so surprised about ganks and rule breaks then? Liberty is famous for it's high pop concentration, and thus famed for lack of RP from many players. I'm not saying there are no good roleplayers, just that there are many who can't or just yet to grasp the concept of roleplay/fairplay. You said you are recently operating in Kusari too, that's good to hear. (I myself don't go to Kusari at all, so I can't be sure about what you do there.) But for a UN-like faction, I haven't seen you in Bretonia yet, haven't seen you in the Taus yet, will not talk about other regions of space as I don't really go elsewhere, and also I guess Gallia is not an option, at least not from a non-hostile perspective. So far these are my experiences.
And about the skype conference call, no, I don't think it is a good idea to open up just two hours to speak based on timezones. The community is barely that dynamic, and that is why we have these forums for, so written thoughts remain for long.
About the community numbers: 11000 ppl? Where? I don't think I've ever seen this much people on the forums. My guess would be around 1000 at it's best, yep, that is one digit less. And from that, 27 cared to comment on this subject, as you said. And from that, 22 had negative criticism (basing my claims on your numbers as I can't be arsed to count them now). To me it means that the rest does not give a crap about it, or just finds their own thoughts expressed by another similar thinking person in this thread already. To me that does not mean that 22 from the 1000 (or 11000) thinks "your roleplay is bad", nor that 995 from 1000 thinks the same. It's just simply 22 from 27.
Just a few thoughts.
RE: Judicial Order - GrnRaptor - 03-05-2013
Well, looks like I was beaten to the meta-posting subject. Glad to see you're working to resolve that.
However, this brings up something else. You have two concepts going on here that appear to be contradictory.
- You claim to be a neutral group looking to bring everyone together.
- You claim to be a PMC working to claim various bounties presented by different groups.
You attack Rheinland military assets on behalf of Interspace Commerce, yet you want to somehow try to work out peace between Liberty and Rheinland. RM HC has already stated that continued attacks on their assets will make you a hostile entity to them. I wouldn't expect Rheinland to trust you to be neutral if you keep that up.
You tried working with GMG to get some guns by attacking Outcasts and Corsairs, and now with Colonials against Outcasts. Yet Yohance is trying to say you'd be willing to be a neutral party between Council and Outcasts. I wouldn't expect Outcasts to welcome you with open arms either.
So, which are you? Neutral intermediary, or PMC? You're not going to be both.
RE: Judicial Order - Haste - 03-05-2013
(03-05-2013, 07:00 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: [Snip]
One “Fatboy Reaver” has already contacted you, showing what small minded men can misconstrue. He is of no consequence. We shall do our best to stay out of GMG space and wish you well.
Honor Justice Duty
Supreme Judge Logan
From: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=92991&pid=1305125#pid1305125
(03-04-2013, 11:18 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: There shall be no recurrence.
I guess that wasn't true.
The transmission was not directed at you or at anyone who would tell you of what was in the transmission. There was no possible way you could know of this - the individual that I "photographed" and "reported" to the GMG has been flying around with these guns for weeks if not months, so anyone could have sent this transmission to the GMG - even weeks ago.
There is no possible way you could even suspect my - Fatboy Reaver - involvement save for metagame knowledge.
As a faction that, in the past, spent a great deal of time educating new players, or at the very least claiming to do so, it would seem appropriate to me that you knew the forum rules / mechanics as well.
RE: Judicial Order - EisenSeele - 03-06-2013
It looks like you've taken to allying with Hessians to invade attack Rheinland ships in Rheinland space. Since you were told that continuing to shoot at Rheinland ships will be an act of war, it looks like your claims that you want to remain neutral with Rheinland is inaccurate.
Since I'm feeling nice, I'll give you one chance to get out of this without permanently ending up as target of opportunity for all ships flying under the MND, as opposed to the couple sporadic ones that have already considered your acts of hostility against Rheinland as a reason to declare you a hostile. Your faction information does, after all, say that you're friendly to lawful factions and that you're a lawful aligned faction yourself - something that is incompatible with working with pirate factions like the [RHA] and the [RF] to shoot at lawful Rheinland ships.
Expect a comm thread post from me soon. Know that if you don't handle it correctly, that you'll have to move Rheinland from the list of Lawful factions that you say is "friendly" and add it to the list of factions that is very unhappy with your involvement in shooting Lawful ships in conjunction with pirate factions.