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+--- Thread: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order (/showthread.php?tid=125642)
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Zen_Mechanics - 02-03-2015
(02-03-2015, 08:55 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: For long history of zonerzonerzoner various groups of Zoners had so many conflicts with different groups/regions. I just don't get it, why current one is different to others? Why admin team took seriously conflict with ZA? They never been a really part of Zoners, only if to say in technical terms. Much more like Zoners asked for help against the ZA, as they blocked Omicron-74 and its raised alot of qq(aswell I'll remind when all three official zoner factions asked to ft5 ZA, admins denied it).No, ZA had a combat engagement with the AI and when they asked your assistance and OSI/taz you ignored it, which in fact means you have broken your faction responsibility to assist indies, then you not only allied with the order ( where true Zoners would have not ) you give them permission to use livadia as a staging ground to attack Zoners, all the while saying you stay away from this conflict. You and your faction are a disgrace and We should be hearing more apologies from you. Attacking indies or as you put it "lolwuts" is a filfthy slander unworthy of you and I'm baffled why you even have a faction so far. Tell me something, Do you choose what days to represent Zoners and what days not? It seems that way.
So, next. TAZ-Order conflict. Are other parties were involved? I don't think so. As any other colflict it should be dealt between 2 sides. But not whole generic faction + the rest official factions. Admins may be not satisfied as its started, due to "special effects" just like nomad tech. But C'MON, be honest - how old conflcits were started? BECAUSE you are ZONER. That's was enough.
All of the time of being thee official factions OSI/TAZ/(ZTC-Omicroners-Phoenix) we had different policy and different view on same things. That's the freedom of Zoners, a thing which attracts players. No one ever tried to affect on this. So what exactly is wrong with this conflict? Each side in Omicrons pewd Zoners(Corsairs, Outcasts, Hunters, Order), we dealt with it. But what is daily business for Omicrons its nono for Taus Zoners.
You are ruin game play of Omicron Zoners/Phoenix, this is completely against our lore and all what we had according to our past. Zoners are different to each other. That's the point why we has own IDs for long time, to rule own diplomacy and choose how to develop it.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - RedEclipse - 02-03-2015
Don't you/your fella said "we're at war no rp anymore"?)) You are blocked whole system by ZA stations to zoner indies and official factions. While you managed to create a storm of zoner tears, disgrace to whole zonerdom. I've heard no single aplogies from you, ZA classics. And you thought we will defend you? So cute.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Zen_Mechanics - 02-03-2015
Yes the station turned hostile to everyone because you and your meta-gaming m8s brougth zoner juggs to attack the station - and back then we didn't have "black list option" otherwise we could have picked char names and not everyone. So, no word on what i've said, I'll take that as a Yes - You did break your responsibility and you did break the ID rules.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - RedEclipse - 02-03-2015
we were fine with your shiny pobs until they were set to "engage on sight". Sorry, if I broke the responsibility when defended my ship from your bases. Half of server saw how they've used to work, seriously.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Thyrzul - 02-03-2015
(02-03-2015, 08:49 PM)Rodent Wrote: The Order, On the other hand is a xenophobic paranoid entity. Xenophobic stems from their hatred of the Nomads and all works related to them. Paranoia means they'll see those works pretty much anywhere. Pretty easy to see why they'd act irrationally towards allies now that I've spelled it out like that, yeah? Additionally, The Order is also pretty strapped for resources, manpower...you name it. They would not want to lose a fairly reliable supplier and a historically good arrangement.
One of the most accurate descriptions I've seen about Order for a while, yet if Order would really be like this, it would have died off long ago. Simply, if you lack the resources to properly carry out your goal, then limitless paranoia is a luxury you can't afford, you can't risk hitting one of your cashcows in one bold move, because who knows what the other supporters will think of you and your reliability, stability, etc.
(02-03-2015, 08:55 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: All of the time of being thee official factions OSI/TAZ/(ZTC-Omicroners-Phoenix) we had different policy and different view on same things.
[...]
Zoners are different to each other. That's the point why we has own IDs for long time, to rule own diplomacy and choose how to develop it.
The only problem with this is that the ID is not enough. In order to have complete control over your own diplomacy you also need separate IFFs, because as long as you share the same one, by game mechanics you will be the same entity. As far as I know that's one of the reasons why all Zoners became red to Order, or rather, Order became red to the Zoner IFF.
And with this we are pretty much at the root of all problems around Zoners. It is simply a faction designed to be a Generic one, and then treated like a Non-Generic one, got lore and shipline slapped onto it and everybody considered them one single cohesive entity, "Zoners", while everybody forgot/ignored that folks scattered around Sirius will be able to function as such no better than a union between Haiti, Hungary and Madagascar would. There is nothing wrong with TAZ, OSI and ZTC/Omicroners/Phoenix functioning like separate entities with their own diplomacy. What was wrong all along is that they shared the same ID for long, and what is still an issue is that they still share the same IFF. And years passed like this. How come nobody ever thought that Zoners might be no more than edge-world freelancers, and the official Zoner factions are just factions developing their own stuff from a Generic ID?
And with this we are pretty much at the root of all problems around Zoners. It is simply a faction designed to be a Generic one, and then treated like a Non-Generic one, got lore and shipline slapped onto it and everybody considered them one single cohesive entity, "Zoners", while everybody forgot/ignored that folks scattered around Sirius will be able to function as such no better than a union between Haiti, Hungary and Madagascar would. There is nothing wrong with TAZ, OSI and ZTC/Omicroners/Phoenix functioning like separate entities with their own diplomacy. What was wrong all along is that they shared the same ID for long, and what is still an issue is that they still share the same IFF. And years passed like this. How come nobody ever thought that Zoners might be no more than edge-world freelancers, and the official Zoner factions are just factions developing their own stuff from a Generic ID?
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Tunicle - 02-03-2015
Try and keep the thread on the straight and narrow - Tunicle
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Zen_Mechanics - 02-03-2015
Like I said, stations were friendly and hostile to Order until some of you decided to bypass weapon platforms by using zoner chars, in that point where we decided to turn everyone to hostile because of that. Let me see now, AI started - You did nothing, ORDER decided to ally AI, you assisted them - Then all sorts of zoner juggs appeared > Station hostile to everyone. I don't see any ZA fault here. It's your fault for leaving ZA alone against 2 factions. It's your fault for not owning your responsibility and its not your bloody excuse to ask admins to reverse the sanction because a bunch of poor-deserted indies who were attacked relentlessly by everyone while you did nothing made a zoner drama. You think you are invincible? Think again. Infact I might just digg all those id violations now, just for fun.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Alvin - 02-03-2015
No idea how this convo got red shifted to ZA... anyhow
(02-03-2015, 11:29 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:(02-03-2015, 08:49 PM)Rodent Wrote: The Order, On the other hand is a xenophobic paranoid entity. Xenophobic stems from their hatred of the Nomads and all works related to them. Paranoia means they'll see those works pretty much anywhere. Pretty easy to see why they'd act irrationally towards allies now that I've spelled it out like that, yeah? Additionally, The Order is also pretty strapped for resources, manpower...you name it. They would not want to lose a fairly reliable supplier and a historically good arrangement.One of the most accurate descriptions I've seen about Order for a while, yet if Order would really be like this, it would have died off long ago. Simply, if you lack the resources to properly carry out your goal, then limitless paranoia is a luxury you can't afford, you can't risk hitting one of your cashcows in one bold move, because who knows what the other supporters will think of you and your reliability, stability, etc.
In the mean time, we should also lose all that Zoner cap, 5000 cargo transports and endless stations. Back to basic and lovely vanilla with no drama / politics?
Guess disco isnt so RP afterall
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Gypsie Skripto - 02-04-2015
The two apples that have fallen far from the tree are TAZ and Phoenix. TAZ has strayed too far from vanilla Zoners, while Phoenix have taken too seriously the "support Order" line of Zoner lore. These two variations now have a conflict of interests regarding precisely Order, but I fail to see how OSI or even unofficial groups such os BSI, IRG and others have to be dragged in said conflict.
The solution then, and the latest update introduced by Alley makes it possible, is to give both Phoenix and TAZ their own IFFs. This way all bases in Baffin and the accorded bases in O74 plus Freeport 11 can start to belong to TAZ and Phoenix respectively, and both groups could play their diplomacy as they prefer.
This is a formal request for TAZ and Phoenix to get their own IFF. The only thing left to discuss is how the "Vanilla Zoners" (OSI, CoF, IRG, BSI and such) are gonna split O74 with Phoenix.
RE: Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order - Doria - 02-04-2015
(02-03-2015, 09:41 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: So Phoenix lost stable ally with no replace.
Fixed that for you.
(02-04-2015, 12:24 AM)Gypsie Skripto Wrote: The solution then, and the latest update introduced by Alley makes it possible, is to give both Phoenix and TAZ their own IFFs. This way all bases in Baffin and the accorded bases in O74 plus Freeport 11 can start to belong to TAZ and Phoenix respectively, and both groups could play their diplomacy as they prefer.
If you are not zoner anymore, then no zoner stations or zoner ships. Sorry.