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+--- Thread: Should official factions have more power? (/showthread.php?tid=20981)
Should official factions have more power? - Spear - 05-26-2009
I just want to restate what I wrote in the early stages of this thread.
I'm saying yes to official faction's driving the RP for their NPC faction and having the status to expect indie's of the same NPC faction to follow any simple order's issued by an official faction member. For example [LN] saying to an indie Navy Carrier "Cease fire on that enemy fighter, our fighters will mop him up" and expect the indie to stand down. For the most part it is the official factions that try to avoid unfair play and random indies that have no problem in ganking someone with no thought to the victim's enjoyment of the game.
I am saying no to restricting indies to ships if they are properly repped for them. Everyone has the right to RP an indie char.
As I posted earlier, I don't see this as a "power" issue, more a "respect" one. I am against power abuse but I believe offical factions should be given more respect, more players should join official faction's rather than creating yet another unofficial faction of the same NPC group, especially if it's a military faction. Rhienland doesnt need 4 different military's it only needs the RM, Liberty doesent need 4 different navies, it has the LN etc.
For well role-played indies I'd like to see them be invited into the official factions as a reward for their strong RP and contribution. They don't have to accept this offer but it would be nice to see good indie RP players that establish an official factions trust be offered a role in an official faction. Just a thought.
Should official factions have more power? - me_b_kevin - 05-26-2009
i voted yes.
i think there should be some benefit to being official. however, the limits of their "power" should be finite and well defined.
individual interpretation of rules, while giving more freedom to the players, seems to only cause more headaches in the long run. this has been evident in the past on numerous occasions and with a our large server population, a large portion of which that don't visit the forums, we need these rules well defined and with a minimum of loop holes. this way people know what to expect, instead of the "it depends on who you talk too" type situations.
for example: Capship Registration, i remember a big stink being raised over this a while back. in order to avoid these long drawn out threads that either end in an arguing match or dissolve into mindless nonsense (which can be thoroughly enjoyable...but that's beside the point), the list of official powers should be thorough and dynamic. it should list the powers they have and explain them, possibly giving examples to put them into context. the list should be left open to add any new situation that weren't originally thought of, each new addition being thoroughly explained as well.
i've never ran a faction and have only recently joined one, so my experience in this matter is close to none. i'm basing my opinions on theory...so i'm not sure how much weight they hold.
Should official factions have more power? - Friday - 05-26-2009
Power is a relative thing.
I voted yes, but the nature of this power should not be in the setting of rules.
To my mind, the greatest power an official faction should have is naming rights.
This is something that has been excluded in the past. Some have argued that Vanilla faction names should be open to all who wish to play it. I disagree.
I speak from experience in the Gas Miners Guild. At first we had a group of indies called GMG|Ronin. They are finding their way, developing themselves and making their own choices. But carrying the GMG tag those choices reflected on more than themselves, they reflected on the 'official' GMG.
But after some choices, they decided to drop the 'official' tag and call themselves Ronin - and you know what, things have never been better!
They have the freedom to develop their own style of RP, we have increased communication with them - and other players generally know where they stand.
What is in a name one might ask? Nothing and everything. The boon and bane of the official faction should be to uphold and advance the name of that faction. Independent characters have the chance to onfluence this by their good works - but to gain the honour of the faction tag one should be prepared to join the official faction.
THAT to my mind is the one power any official faction should have. Not ships, nor equipment, not RP because there are rules for that - but the name.
Should official factions have more power? - ProwlerPC - 05-26-2009
I read the entire thread last night. You know, I couldn't come up with an answer - just thoughts.
I slept on it and when I woke up I seem to still find myself unsure as what this may mean or lead to.
I'll try my best to organize my whirling thoughts on this.
I've already felt that official factions always had RP power and an influence on the details of the mod's development. I've seen it in the past and confidant of this knowledge have, with the other leaders of our official faction, excercised presicely that. We've managed to have the Cruiser class and Battleship class ships removed from our associated ID as they did not fit with the in-game lore and the overall NPC faction at all. If this is the kind of power being talked about that I know official factions already have it. It's actually a pretty hefty power and one that can go overboard if not challenged for it's seriousness. Our appeals to remove two ship classes from an ID was indeed challenged but we held our ground confidant with the information we had from in-game and in the end the change was made. There probably is numerous smaller influences official factions have on the mod development that we don't even know of. You'd probably be surprised how one post can suddenly affect a change without directly realizing it.
If the increase in power means enabled flhook commands that have, for example, a large general effect on the behaviour of the NPCs towards a char than I'd say I'm a bit nervous at the idea. I'll use myself and an flhook command that would cause the NPCs I'm associated with to become hostile to a player character. I don't lead a faction that has the RP to go steamrolling ourside their space, the most intrusive aspec in fact is the exploration unit. However, I am an oak when it comes to the ZoI of the faction I lead. I hold to the in-game lore so strictly that I have indeed frustrated other groups, who are exploring the boundary's of RP, by staunchly refusing other militant ships in our ZoI and keeping our ZoI seperate from all. Now the biggy: If there is an flhook command that can be used as a solution instead of using an RP one, what kind of monitoring and punishment could be set in place? If I had turned to a power instead of RP'ng a better solution I oughta get a whack for that.
The idea of a council scares me even more. This 500mil fee has somehow been seen as the only pre-requisite to becoming official. I ask those who believe that to go look at the Faction Requests forum and ask the ones who have been waiting for approval or have been turned down if they believe the same thing. It took an intense amount of research to mirror an NPC faction. It took longer to put it all in order and organize it into faction post that follows the format needed for approval. It went through an even longer period of forum scrutiny and in-game scrutiny (yes you are expected to be very active during the process to prove your in-game worth). Through this you are judged at your factions consistancy in keeping to the RP that was posted in the proposal (the more detailed and consice the easier to judge). For those who succeed they have achieved not just the approval of the admins but the approval of the community. If there was a council of say 8. Are they all willing to put as much time and research for every single NPC faction. It would be necessary in my opinion if they are going to "correct" the faction on NPC RP. It's a big job that I do not believe is possible to fulfill. I would be hardpressed indeed to want to hand the helm of the faction I lead over to 8 people who may suddenly find themselves controlling all in-game RP. Ouch!
See I am still just full of whirling thoughts that will go in circles. I'll vote later as I think more on it.
Should official factions have more power? - Korrd - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:I think that official factions should have more power, because after all they are a part of the community.Remember that the 500mill fee is not there to stop the poor from becoming official, but in order to ensure that those who want to make a faction are really serious about it.
As for unoffical, they havnt payed their 500M so why should they have any power?
Think of it as starting a new bussiness, you cant make Microsoft in one day.
It takes work and money to get power, and most of all respect (and good rp)#
@Korrd - PENGUINS RULE!!
' Wrote:Voted No on this one but that was mostly because there was no middle ground. I'll explain;
I think certain factions seem to believe they have omnipotent power as it is and those factions should probably be curbed to some degree. I would also argue that with some of these factions their power is often usued for all the wrong reasons.
In some areas of space I would like to see a few factions granted a little moe power, or should I say certain powers? There are areas that are becoming more or less lawless due to the influx of new indie pilots who feel they should not be bound by any rules but those they choose to agree with. In these cases I think a little more power to enforce laws etc would be welcome.
Also I think the granting of more powers should be a reward, not a right. (...)
' Wrote:In some cases, perhaps. In many, absolutely not.
There are many occasions and examples where someone having monopoly over an NPC faction would be indeed detrimental to the state of the server.
Not all factions have a sensible leadership, and some people, frankly, are addicted to power just a bit.
Some people have a problem admitting they are wrong.
Having someone have monopoly over an NPC faction just because he was there first is totally and utterly wrong.
The RP and diplomacy of NPC factions who have more than one official faction should be governed by an equal council of their leaders.
There should *not* be a monopoly on NPC factions. Of course we can't have two RM's, LN's, or BAF's, but that's just exceptions to the rule.
And furthermore, the control of NPC faction diplomacy from factions that are official should be divided according to the activity and merits of said factions.
If one particular faction represents the NPCs for say a year, and then comes another one, for example..
The power to control NPC faction policy *must* be divided between the two if both show enough prowess to capably lead it.
If one fails, the other one should get more power.
Simple as that.
Personally, I believe and always SHALL believe that a democratic system is an utter pre-requirement to everything.
Rather simply said:
No monopolies. No no and just no.
I see your point.
So you basically mean that it would be better to have all factions that go under the same NPC group to form a council that would then decide the course of action they should follow?
If so, it's a great idea that addresses a problem that is currently present on the server.
That would also give place to new RP opportunities, since there could be civil wars, splits, ingame and forumside council meetings, and a lot more things that do not happen often around here.
Now, in order to decentralize the power of a single faction over an NPC group, the following could be done:
![[Image: factionstruct.png]](http://lordkorrd.dynalias.org/docs/DGC/factionstruct.png)
On this graph, all factions whose alignment falls under the same NPC tag would form a council which will determine the common direction they should follow, along with policies regarding other factions, status inside the NPC group, functions of each other, etc. That way, no single faction would monopolize and NPC group, as the role of those would be played by the council instead of an individual faction.
In the case of the houses, which have multiple NPC that pursue the same goals but have different tasks, )like Police, Navy, etc), the situation should be different, as some of those should be allowed to perform certain actions that others wont or can't do.
Having the police looking for contraband instead of the navy, and having the navy to fight threats that require of military prowess to do so.
Now, should only official factions be permitted to be part of the council? Or should unofficial ones be allowed to form part of it too?
In order to answer that question, bear in mind that a new faction creation process would have to be taken into consideration, which is the one we are discussing now on the Admin forums.
Such process goes as follows:
- A new faction must be first created as an Unofficial faction. We'll call it Group from now on. Official factions can no longer be created from the beginning.
- That group will get the right to apply to became official after some time on the server and after having been reviewed and sufficient merit for it found.
- If they get that right, they then can submit the request, and be reviewed. They can then became official and get all the rights official factions can have, specially a seat in the council of factions, giving them some power over the NPC group they are part of.
So basically:
If you want to create a faction you start with a group and then after some time you make your petition to become official. If approved, you get a seat on the council of factions.
Remember that it's just a draft I just made. It needs to be developed if it is to be tested or implemented.
Should official factions have more power? - Eppy - 05-26-2009
This is basically the system the Outcasts use in our Council of Dons, except that we have independent players on the council to represent an equal portion of non-faction players. It works fairly well for us.
Should official factions have more power? - Korrd - 05-26-2009
>>> I've edited my prior post and added some new info on the subject. <<<
Yeah. I think the council could also have a seat for an Indie representative too.
I think its fairer than the current method...
Should official factions have more power? - sovereign - 05-26-2009
I would still like to see it spelled out what factions currently can do, must do, and can't do. I've seen so many contradictory rulings and messy threads that I can only guess.
Should official factions have more power? - globalplayer-svk - 05-26-2009
I think yes,but only in some situation,
For example(i use corsairs,because most of my chars are corsairs) stating indy player that is repeately attacking corsair allies or breakimg corsair rp as traitor to corsair council and ability to take actions against him.but only when it is decision of leaders(for example corsair council) but all in rp only.
I type more when i am home from work
Should official factions have more power? - pipsqueak - 05-26-2009
Don't we allow ships bigger than GB's to official factions only ?
There you go...