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+--- Thread: Battleships- a solution (/showthread.php?tid=25864)
Battleships- a solution - guitarguy - 09-03-2009
Unless we go back to fighters only, someone's always going to gank with the bigger ship. We're going to have to accept that or not use caps at all. Also, I've seen official factions ganking (although much less than indies), so indies aren't the only problem.
Battleships- a solution - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 09-03-2009
This is a GREAT solution Jihad.
Jihad Joe Wrote:"With the system I would like to introduce, the faction would NOT be able to restrict the purchase of capital ships. They would ONLY be able to petition the admin team to have someone's cap-flying rights removed, AFTER that individual had been shown to be screwing up. Adaquate proof would have to be shown."
However, It would have to be more than just the ship loling in system chat once. You tell him to stop it or his ship will get starflier ninja'ed. Second time/third time you actually do it.
Battleships- a solution - Jihadjoe - 09-04-2009
Which is exactly the reason I said 'adaquate proof'.
It's also the suggestion I have been proposing for some months to anyone who'd listen. The Faction right #5 should be remodeled and rewriten in this way in my opinion.
Battleships- a solution - Guest - 09-04-2009
Well, im done picking out posts to reply to.
' Wrote:The way I see it, the positives of restricting capital ships to factions, or faction control are far outweighed by the negatives of doing so. Stop blaming them for all your problems, cause the real culprit is not the ship, it's the player behind it.Right, its the player with the ship. That said, allow people to restrict those high-powered vessels only capable of war from those players who would abuse it's strength.
' Wrote:Without the freedom to fly almost any ship you want, you kinda loose the idea of freelancer!The idea of Freelancer, was to be Edison Trent doing oddjobs for various groups.
People should be free, we do not need more rules or restrictions!
Edison Trent flew starfliers, patriots, defenders, anubis's etc... Not Carriers, Dreadnoughts, and Battleships.
On Disco, the idea of A freelancer is someone whos limited to gunboat class or lighter ships.
' Wrote:many people wanted to make large ships more expensive and nerf traderoutes that turned out to be too popular. - they wanted limited credits, force people into NPC factions and set tighter RP guidelines on factions ( npc faction IDs )
the result was a thread of well over 200 posts complaining about the new tradesystem - and it was mostly those that asked for more expensive ships and lesser profit that complained. - it was NOT the players that were considered "powertraders" in 4.84 that complained about the new system.
The issue here, is that while the popular, insanely high profit routes were nerfed... various other routes were nerfed as well, ones that didnt need to be nerfed at all, and ones that actually needed to be buffed a tiny bit.
- what if a faction does not WANT to restrict caps? - force them to? - if not by rules... paint them as "bad" factions, cause they allow "lol-caps"? Lolcaps shoot for the blue lines. if its too often, people lose interest in that area of gameplay. Thats part of the reason I rarely go into Liberty anymore.
- what if a faction totally ( and i mean utterly ) messes up. - what punishment have they gotto face? - what effect will it have on the wellfare of the community? Factions are already held to higher standards...
- what if a faction approves players and those players totally mess up ( within the rules, but still totally off ) - is that a testament of the failure of a factions judgement?
Approval Removal? What happens when a licensed driver screws up too many times? License Revoked.
' Wrote:"With the system I would like to introduce, the faction would NOT be able to restrict the purchase of capital ships. They would ONLY be able to petition the admin team to have someone's cap-flying rights removed, AFTER that individual had been shown to be screwing up. Adaquate proof would have to be shown."I don't, it gives an oorp punishment to something that can be handled inrp
I like that ...
Battleships- a solution - n00bl3t - 09-04-2009
' Wrote:I found out indies abusing much more then player factions. Not enought reason for you?
And why should player factio nleader abuse anything?... Personal issues are nothign to do with this, I arready stated. Since most of the people understands that this is a game.
Good roleplayers or community members goes into personal issues very rarely. Besides. The most factions are led by laading teams not by one person.
:lol:
' Wrote:Evil idipendet players, why not dissallow indies all together, so the faction leaders can feel more important, and decide exclusively who gets to fly that Cap.
Is that a flame? i think not the, starting post might have been.
Yes right, only well knowen player may use the ships they want, right, thats the way, do they have to be popular as well.
May i remind you that some players have played here for a very long time, years sometimes, and play their charakter with very good roleplay, but have never bothered to post spam the forum or suck up to faction leaders or admins. They enritch the roleplay, and the atmosphere of this server.
But now you say, they many not do it, because they are not communuty whores, why post to every threat, and hang out in Teamspeak or sykpe all day.
Really?? some players want to play the game, and have fun, Threats like this are just grose.
If I ever decide to purchase a Battleship, and fight and play in it, i dont want to have to ask anybody if i may, i will ask nicely, i will not beg bribe any faction leaders, or what ever, i will just do.
Server rules say, everone must have a maximum of one Battleship, one per player, Factions workaround this rule by useing shared battleships already, how about putting a stop to that?
One BS per player, thats a good rule, every one can have one, but must decide where and what its going to be.
Every one of us have ran into a Battleship that was no well played, shure, but also into alot of well played ones.
AND some of the faction Caps are played bad either, not pointing naked fingers, but one Faction Battleship owned by a respected Players, has //oorped around the system chat everytime i came across it.
Yea right, stopp these lolwuting factionised Battleship...comeone think about what your asking for.
Really think, not just, oh i am pissed by that cap that just killed me, i am writeing a post/threat to bann all the Capplayers that arent well connected.
so long, and no thanks.
/signed. (I think he pretty much summed up the situation.)
' Wrote:Voted "Other" - anything Gunboat and up should be faction-given only. Yes, there are plenty of great indie RPers flying such ships, but seriously, asking a faction for approval isn't that much work, and if some RP would be required to get bigger ships than fighters, maybe we could finally say "Hey, look, a Battleship! Time for some RP!" instead of "Oh, crap. Yet *another* stupid BS jock...".
They call me an extremist.
Battleships- a solution - Ceoran - 09-04-2009
Noobl3t, there's one thing about my independence that bothers me while reading your comments:
It's my independence, not yours. You are acting like you were the one to represent the thoughts of all the other indies around while all the faction-guys are only looking at our freedom with jealousy. But I'm willing to do the step and make owning my battleship more difficult if it helps to keep the rp-resistant kind in line. Which I'm sure it does as it already worked when I joined Disco last year. And I'm also sure there are more independents out there who do actually think the same way (especially the ones who have been around long enough to know it the other way round).
And concerning that rubbish about bias, elitism and favouritism: Grab a char for the npc-faction you want to buy your battleship from, roleplay it, get known to the people you are going to play together with once you have that big ship, get known to the laws and difficulties of that faction in-game. Once you did that and roleplayed your char well, people will notice you. And more important: you will gain their trust. And if they trust you, you will get your request granted. Guess what has been my first post here ... do I have to add that it got granted?
And for those who really can't rp a single person but a whole amount of persons, I'd say to stay with the suggestion we already had and not restrict the cruisers. They would be the perfect ships for them to prove their rp abilities, no?
(And yes, I think it's obvious that the BCs would need to be included)
Battleships- a solution - n00bl3t - 09-04-2009
' Wrote:Noobl3t, there's one thing about my independence that bothers me while reading your comments:
It's my independence, not yours. You are acting like you were the one to represent the thoughts of all the other indies around while all the faction-guys are only looking at our freedom with jealousy. But I'm willing to do the step and make owning my battleship more difficult if it helps to keep the rp-resistant kind in line. Which I'm sure it does as it already worked when I joined Disco last year. And I'm also sure there are more independents out there who do actually think the same way (especially the ones who have been around long enough to know it the other way round).
And concerning that rubbish about bias, elitism and favouritism: Grab a char for the npc-faction you want to buy your battleship from, roleplay it, get known to the people you are going to play together with once you have that big ship, get known to the laws and difficulties of that faction in-game. Once you did that and roleplayed your char well, people will notice you. And more important: you will gain their trust. And if they trust you, you will get your request granted. Guess what has been my first post here ... do I have to add that it got granted?
And for those who really can't rp a single person but a whole amount of persons, I'd say to stay with the suggestion we already had and not restrict the cruisers. They would be the perfect ships for them to prove their rp abilities, no?
(And yes, I think it's obvious that the BCs would need to be included)
In general, to your post, and your overall ignorance, I am tempted to facepalm.
Instead, flip is activated, if I act like I represent all independents, and you feel your independence is weighed down by me, feel free to write up a contract and verify it by the Administration to have your independence and ship choice dictated at a faction's discretion. I will, on the other hand, continue like I always have, with or without my forum role-play, and role-play my capital ships in-game without any approval of my actions by factions, within the server rules and in the general spirit of the game. If however, you come here and you want me to come under your banner of independence, which is not independence at all, and approve my RP with official factions, is that hypocritical of what you just said? Are you not then weighing down on mine and making my decisions for me?
Eh.
Battleships- a solution - Ceoran - 09-04-2009
I'm sure you are aware that I could return half of it back to you, though I'll spare us that little infinite loop.
Actually I don't want to get you "under my banner". Instead I would prefer a majority decision without leading someone to the conclusion all independents would be strictly against factions and for sure be lolwutters.
Besides I just told you how your statements read for me, no need to start flaming.
Battleships- a solution - chovynz - 09-04-2009
' Wrote:I'm sure you are aware that I could return half of it back to you, though I'll spare us that little infinite loop.I am for sure a roleplayer.
Actually I don't want to get you "under my banner". Instead I would prefer a majority decision without leading someone to the conclusion all independents would be strictly against factions and for sure be lolwutters.
Besides I just told you how your statements read for me, no need to start flaming.
I am for sure dead set against factions having control like this, when most have proven themselves, like humans, to be fallible.
I am also an advocate about factions in that they can be a great support to players.
I love factions.
But not control. I will not allow any other person to control me. (kinda of a disclaimer, trying to help you understand my POV.)
The problem there is that the FORUM members, do not accurately represent those who do not come to the forums. THOSE people, even if they are part of an NPC faction, ARE independents. These forums have never accurately represented them, and they never will. Polls are lopsided to those who care enough to vote. Most polls, most opinion fests have on average about 100-150 votes. And there are for sure a hell of a lot more Official Discovery Server Players than 150.
There are many people like me, who just want to play. We don't have a lot of time.
I don't have 3-5 weeks/months of waiting for other people to get their A into G, about a simple request to fly a ship. And then it might get turned down simply because that person has a grudge against me because my avatar hurts their eyes. OR I might have AI onboard as crew, but the faction (leader) doesn't accept that because it goes against how a ship [SHOULD BE] roleplayed. That is roleplay dictation by one PERSON, to another PERSON. IT is an OORP judgement based on feelings and emotions.
And no, Joe, this is one area where I do not agree with you, again.
Battleships should not be controlled by player factions. I've seen nothing to change my stance on this. In fact I've seen plenty of evidence to specifically state that NO. As I said just above, most of the denials in the past, have been because personal feelings got in the way of acceptance of a possible roleplay. Roleplay dictation. Even giving officals factions the power to complain to the admin team, to seriously consider removing someone elses ship, (no matter how badly roleplayed), is too much power.
As long as this is an open server that anyone can join, anyone should have the opportunity to get any ship in the NPC factions that they can join. If indeed, as you say, and I believe it for I've seen it, that there are stupid players in all types of ships, then why don't you just jump all the other hurdles that WILL come up, beat THOSE "COMPLAINTS" and make ALL ships tied to their player factions? Because that is where you are going by suggesting that a specific ship be tied to a player faction.
Why stop at battleships?
Why not do the all capital ships, Gunboats and above?
Then someone will say, Why stop there? Why not make all BOMBERS, tied to a faction. Then it will be all VERY HEAVY FIGHTERS.
Because there IS no reason to stop there, only at Battleships. Because the problem is not the ships. It is the players, and those players are in every type of ship.
In fact, why don't we skip this whole controversial and not-well thought out Whingefest, and make joining to a player faction mandatory for everyone? Then at least we could tell them, "I'm sorry, we have no more room. You'll have to try the Bretonian space."
Sarcasm aside. If you want to "control" people doing stupid things, you need to find a different way than restricting one type of ship to factions, (or to factions complaining to admins about them). Because if you restrict one, you might as well restrict them all since it is not the ships that are the problem.
Battleships- a solution - looqas - 09-04-2009
I'll go with this
Quote:No- However, official factions can petition to get it removed if misused
For the simple fact that people who are inclined and curious about the ships should be able to buy them and test them out. But there should also be a checking mechanisms of sorts to deal with the utterly stupid RP (or lack of it) of some BS owners...