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+--- Thread: Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out (/showthread.php?tid=47865)
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Anesthetize - 04-13-2011
' Wrote:Perhaps you should actually try and playing the game, instead of being blatantly bitter about your former endeavors.
Can he have an inferno nomad laser katana to have fun in game with too then?
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Cond0r - 04-13-2011
' Wrote:Can he have an inferno nomad laser katana to have fun in game with too then?Well I wouldnt know, you would have to ask the faction leader. Try joining and you will see.:happy:
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Jeremy Hunter - 04-13-2011
' Wrote:Well I wouldnt know, you would have to ask the faction leader. Try joining and you will see.:happy:
+1
Faction leader shouldnt be biased. You might be able to join. Just have an RP and make it unique.
Oh, and Smokey? Is there a shortened lore that wont take me 3+ hours to read?
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Cond0r - 04-13-2011
There is no shorter Nomad lore to my knowledge, but it wont take you that long to finish it, trust me. Its not -that- hard to read.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Jeremy Hunter - 04-13-2011
' Wrote:There is no shorter Nomad lore to my knowledge, but it wont take you that long to finish it, trust me. Its not -that- hard to read.
Meh.
I'll go check it out then.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - mjolnir - 04-13-2011
' Wrote:Here's a new piece of information given to me:
Mjolnir, you tell us to use hybrid guns, right? What I ask is, "What hybrid guns?" None exist. None fit for Wild factions, that is. What the Order has at its disposal is a human-made imitation. It is a mock prototype based off of parts and vast research put into the project. And even with all its technology, it can't compare to what the Nomads use.
The camera now pans in on the Wild. Their home base is located right next to the Nomads' new home. Hand in hand, they make technological and biological advancements. Would the Wild, in their close proximity to their benefactors, sue for the weapon designed by and made for the Order? No. They'd have their own hybrid weapon that would essentially be a nomad laser in a metallic housing. Something akin to an organ stimulated by the power of the ship.
If you give us a hybrid gun, we'll damn well use it. Until then, we are left with using Nomad equipment on our infected ships.
Nomad Blasters and Cannons are primarily Wilde/AoI guns and sold on Wilde/AoI bases. These were the guns Wilde faction was started with, Nomad Lasers were added for Nomads (Keepers) later.
They have same infocard since vanilla and it's still correct, "Attempt to make nomad guns compatible with ships from colonies". You can call them human-made imitation, but wilde/aoi are still humans (as in having 2 legs, 2 arms and controlling the human ship with them, a human ship that uses powercore to power guns).
Nomad Lasers are physically part of the nomad being (i.e. ship), which is why they don't show any models.
Nomad Blasters/Cannons were always used by Wild ships (or at least since 4.83, don't remember before), Order "finally" got them after numerous years in 4.85, so that the "nomad technology" that BHG attacks order for actually will physically be there.
Basically instead of keeping the blasters/cannons for wilde and adding new nomad-hybrid gun for the order, they got the same one. But still it was Wilde that used these first, Order after.
Again let's simplify it:
Nomad Blasters/Cannons:
- are mix of nomad and human technology
- are mountable on human ships
- fit with main kusari guns in speed and with some even in refire
- are sold on AoI bases
Nomad Lasers
- are purely nomad technology
- are parts of nomad "ships"
- can not be mounted on human ships
- don't fit with any kusari gun in speed
- are also sold on AoI bases (which they shouldn't as they don't exist without the "ship")
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Dennis Jameson - 04-13-2011
Actually, the SRP for Outcast technology was quite limited in its nature... and one of the specifications for those who bothers to look is that whomever of you wish to use that tech has to give me a foot rub first... and then appease me in ways you can't even imagine before you're even granted the tech.
Thanks for bringing up this issue though, I'll be sure to speak to the admins about this "misunderstanding" we seem to be having in regards to this.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Ayem - 05-20-2011
I've been away for a while, so I find myself slightly confused by level of rage found on these pages from both sides.
Roleplay and PVP.
In roleplay, the Aoi Iseijin are infiltrators and subverters. They attack surgically, and then withdraw. This is a generalization, sometimes it doesn't appear to work this way due to individual character and/or situation.
Why do the Aoi Iseijin use KNF technology?
In the beginning, there was Tekagi. He was a governer in the Kusari State. A portion of the Kusari Naval Forces were assigned to assist and protect him and his work (whether or not what he was doing was known, this was the end result). The levels of infection of these Kusari Naval Forces personnel are not clear, however after the defeat of Tekagi the great majority of uninfected would likely have retreated to the hub of Kusari territory to await new orders.
Some of the infected would remain to rebuild, others would return with the uninfected for recruitment.
Historically therefore, the Aoi Iseijin have access to Kusari Naval Forces technology.
Why do the Aoi Iseijin use non-KNF technology?
As stated before, the Aoi Iseijin infiltrate and subvert. Potential targets are identified and seduced (the Siren) or coerced into a state where they are unable to resist infection. The target is now infected and will act in the interests of the Aoi Iseijin because, of course, they now are Aoi Iseijin. Many of our character's back stories reflect this process. We have drawn the line however, at the infiltration of Kyoto and other Blood Dragon bases with the tacit understanding that the Blood Dragons have, in RP, the same scanning technologies of the Order, in RP, which allow the detection of nomad infestation in a host body. Blood Dragons therefore have to be infected on neutral ground, or after battles.
Non-Blood Dragon Kusari nationals may be more easily infected due to an inability to obtain advanced warning. The Aoi Iseijin seem like regular humans while infiltrating, because they act as such.
Why do the Aoi Iseijin use Infernos?
I've always been a little foggy on this one and would appreciate Dennis Jameson's input on the specifics, however as I understand it- it is because we have a special relationship with them. Outcasts (in vanilla rumours at least) worship the Nomads as Spirits, which guard the sacred resting place of deceased Outcasts. As the "earthly" representation of the Spirits, the Aoi Iseijin (and Das Wilde, though they are far more removed from Outcast space) might call on the Outcasts to provide military or strategic support and/or weapons technologies. With regards to the Inferno itself, I would recommend that the Aoi Iseijin place official requests to the Outcast command, and perhaps visit Alpha to re-establish a rapport. (I am guilty of not placing a request.)
Under Akura we had a political cooling towards the Outcasts that had something to do with the use of Cardamine, which I never fully understood. As a former long-term Outcast player I never had any trouble imagining strong ties between Outcasts and the hosts of the Nomads. Dennis Jameson has frequently questioned this special relationship in the past, taking particular exception to the line in the Outcast ID that does not allow Outcasts to fire on Nomads until fired upon. I back his arguments about removing that line, since it stifles certain kinds of RP that I would like to see more of from the Outcasts. (This is not a jab at RP-output from the Outcasts, I would just like them to be able to do something more than harass bloody miners and crazed pirates. They have so much more scope than that.)
Why do the Aoi Iseijin prefer Kusari Naval Forces destroyers and gunboats over Dragon destroyers and gunboats, or Ahoudaris?
The Arch originally housed a fleet of indeterminate size during Tekagi's occupation. The docking/construction/repair structures on the Arch reflect this. The technologies of these structures would, probably, be more competent at servicing a Kusari Naval Forces fleet than non-standardized ships. Dragon destroyers and gunboats are also, by evidence of their infocards, rare and fiercely protected. The Mandate.of.Heaven's introduction to the Aoi Iseijin fold (currently on deep exploration in the void beyond the galaxy, if I understand it correctly) was a coup of epic proportions. The Aoi Iseijin have only two Battleships in service, the Mandate (a Togo) and the 113th|IKN-Seiryuu (a KNF BS), since one is hunter and the other is trapper only one can currently be fielded in any one battle.
The Kusari Destroyer and Gunboat are small and maneuverable, without particularly heavy armour. This follows the philosophy of the Aoi Iseijin. These ships have smaller powerplants than most other capital craft, so their destructive power is somewhat limited despite their advanced weapons. I personally could do as well with a mix of general weaponry (BRs, Pulses, Ku turrets, Solaris, Mortars, etc.) as I can with the Nomad turrets. What I would lose is the colour, and the scream, of Nomad weapons.
The use of Nomad weapons vs. other
If there is a single reason I use Nomad weapons on these ships, it is for the scream. They are a uniform that says "Nomad/Wild" and people react accordingly. Whether on fighter, gunboat or destroyer, they set us apart. They say "alien".
We do not use Codenames on our Wild ID ships. Most other people do. Instead we use Nomad weapons. Which is better, the Nomad weapon or the Codename? The Nomad weapon does less damage, but is faster at 700m/s compared to a Codename's 600-650m/s. Nomad weapons may be more effective than most faction weaponry, but it is rare that I fight anyone not using Codenames.
To clarify:
Codenames are the "special" (bread and butter) weapons of humans.
Nomad lasers are the "special" (bread and butter) weapons of Nomads/Wild.
To address Mjolnir's question of why we don't use Nomad blasters and cannons. To answer, some of us do. I prefer 700m/s over the blaster/cannon's lower energy consumption. The damage disparity between the weapons is not very large.
Where are the SRPs for Aoi Iseijin ships of non-typical configuration?
For much of the Aoi Iseijin's existence, the SRP forum and function was locked.
Thank you for your time reading this rather long post. I hope it answers many of your questions. Please feel free to ask any others that it does not.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - chopper - 05-20-2011
Finally, someone to address the questions in a reasonable matter. Thank you for that. I will go trough your post and discuss the said things with you, even though I know I might get flamed by certain individuals once again.
Quote:Why do the Aoi Iseijin use non-KNF technology?
As stated before, the Aoi Iseijin infiltrate and subvert. Potential targets are identified and seduced (the Siren) or coerced into a state where they are unable to resist infection. The target is now infected and will act in the interests of the Aoi Iseijin because, of course, they now are Aoi Iseijin. Many of our character's back stories reflect this process. We have drawn the line however, at the infiltration of Kyoto and other Blood Dragon bases with the tacit understanding that the Blood Dragons have, in RP, the same scanning technologies of the Order, in RP, which allow the detection of nomad infestation in a host body. Blood Dragons therefore have to be infected on neutral ground, or after battles.
I urge you to look at your own roster. Your Blood Dragon characters are not a result of some form of roleplay that existed before they were infected. Almost every hunter owns both a Blood Dragon ship and a KNF ship.
Now, another point. How do you expect to infiltrate anywhere if you put Nomad Lasers on your Katanas?
For example, you are not using Nomad Lasers on your Trappers, because you are infiltrated in to the ranks of the navy. Having a Katana with Nomad weaponry makes you unable to infiltrate anywhere.
If you add an Inferno on top of that, every sane Dragon would realize that you are either a traitor or a Wilde with the help of his AC scanner.
Therefore, this sounds to me like an "RP excuse", instead of a "Tool to improve your RP".
I would also like to note that it is impossible to "Infect" anyone trough the ship. You'd have to capture the Dragon, make him eject from his intact ship, infect him face to face, and then get him in to his ship again.
So, how does this work exactly? No Dragon would ever let you capture him alive.
Also, using your logic, you'd be perfectly alright flying Order ships too. You said it with your own words, the Dragons have the same scanning technology as the Order.
How come no one ever managed to capture an Order ship, and infect it's habitants?
Quote:Why do the Aoi Iseijin use Infernos?
I've always been a little foggy on this one and would appreciate Dennis Jameson's input on the specifics, however as I understand it- it is because we have a special relationship with them. Outcasts (in vanilla rumours at least) worship the Nomads as Spirits, which guard the sacred resting place of deceased Outcasts. As the "earthly" representation of the Spirits, the Aoi Iseijin (and Das Wilde, though they are far more removed from Outcast space) might call on the Outcasts to provide military or strategic support and/or weapons technologies. With regards to the Inferno itself, I would recommend that the Aoi Iseijin place official requests to the Outcast command, and perhaps visit Alpha to re-establish a rapport. (I am guilty of not placing a request.)
Outcasts in Vanilla don't worship any Nomads, that's a mistake. Worshiping of Nomads came later, when Treewyrm started his Harbringer RP, and then founded the Keepers.
Remember that fella from Cali base that helped Trent? Yep, he was an Outcast.
However, even if we take Treewyrm's RP as lore, I don't see any reason for you to use Inferno weapons other then pure PVP reasons.
Outcasts are not dumb, they are allied with the GC, they won't supply YOU with the means to kill their girls, man.
What would the GC say to this? I mean, how do you even approach them with your request?
Quote:Why do the Aoi Iseijin prefer Kusari Naval Forces destroyers and gunboats over Dragon destroyers and gunboats, or Ahoudaris?
The Arch originally housed a fleet of indeterminate size during Tekagi's occupation. The docking/construction/repair structures on the Arch reflect this. The technologies of these structures would, probably, be more competent at servicing a Kusari Naval Forces fleet than non-standardized ships. Dragon destroyers and gunboats are also, by evidence of their infocards, rare and fiercely protected. The Mandate.of.Heaven's introduction to the Aoi Iseijin fold (currently on deep exploration in the void beyond the galaxy, if I understand it correctly) was a coup of epic proportions. The Aoi Iseijin have only two Battleships in service, the Mandate (a Togo) and the 113th|IKN-Seiryuu (a KNF BS), since one is hunter and the other is trapper only one can currently be fielded in any one battle.
The Kusari Destroyer and Gunboat are small and maneuverable, without particularly heavy armour. This follows the philosophy of the Aoi Iseijin. These ships have smaller powerplants than most other capital craft, so their destructive power is somewhat limited despite their advanced weapons. I personally could do as well with a mix of general weaponry (BRs, Pulses, Ku turrets, Solaris, Mortars, etc.) as I can with the Nomad turrets. What I would lose is the colour, and the scream, of Nomad weapons.
Your Arch should be more capable of repairing Chimaeras then too, wouldn't it? Instead, you choose to fly Katanas.
You know, I wouldn't have a problem with you using Kusari gunboats and Kusari destroyers, if you would also use Chimaeras only. However, you somehow find a way to mix all the best equipment.
For example, your Kusari Gunboat will also operate in Chugoku (I'v seen this myself), even though it'd make more sense for him to "infiltrate" somewhere else. However, you claim you need Katanas to infiltrate amongst the Dragons on the other hand.
Let me show you how this looks.
Chimaera < Katana
Kusari GB > Blood Dragon GB
Kusari Destroyer > Dragon Destroyer
Disinfectors < Nomad blasters < Nomad Lasers
Inferno...
Bold ones are the ones you mostly use. Coincidence?
Quote:The use of Nomad weapons vs. other
If there is a single reason I use Nomad weapons on these ships, it is for the scream. They are a uniform that says "Nomad/Wild" and people react accordingly. Whether on fighter, gunboat or destroyer, they set us apart. They say "alien".
We do not use Codenames on our Wild ID ships. Most other people do. Instead we use Nomad weapons. Which is better, the Nomad weapon or the Codename? The Nomad weapon does less damage, but is faster at 700m/s compared to a Codename's 600-650m/s. Nomad weapons may be more effective than most faction weaponry, but it is rare that I fight anyone not using Codenames.
You can't claim the Nomad weaponry to be even similar to codenames. I was here during the 4.83 and 4.84, when Nomad Blasters and Nomad Cannons were open use. And you know what? They were great weapons.
Why do you think they are restricted now, for RP reasons? If we follow the vanilla lore, they should be lootable. Even the Order is restricted to only two of these weapons. You can mount all of them. Yet, you choose to go even further, and mount Lasers instead.
Now, let me explain it to you the difference between codes and Nomad weaponry.
You have 5 types of class 10 nomad weapons, and 2 types of class 9 nomad weapons.
Codename weapons are, on the other hand, very expensive and hard to use properly.
It's much easier for someone to aim a 4.0 refire 700 speed weapon then to snipe with 2.0 600 weapon.
Furthermore, Nomad Lasers are NOT made for human ships, yet you completely ignore that fact and mount them anyway. Why is that? How do you explain mounting something unmountable on your ships?
Nomad Cannons and Nomad Blasters are mountable on human ships, and therefore you should use them.
Quote:To clarify:
Codenames are the "special" (bread and butter) weapons of humans.
Nomad lasers are the "special" (bread and butter) weapons of Nomads/<strike>Wild.</strike>
Fixed that part for you. Nomad Lasers are the special weapons of nomads. They are organic, they are invisible, they are unmountable on a piece of metal.
Quote:To address Mjolnir's question of why we don't use Nomad blasters and cannons. To answer, some of us do. I prefer 700m/s over the blaster/cannon's lower energy consumption. The damage disparity between the weapons is not very large.
And I prefer Krakens over my Salamancas, because I prefer 700m/s over lower energy consumption.
Now, to summarize. You have certain RP reasons to use absolutely the best equipment available in whole of Sirius.
Keepers should have an edge over you, yet you get the best from both the Humans (ships) and the Nomads (weapons).
Quote:Where are the SRPs for Aoi Iseijin ships of non-typical configuration?
For much of the Aoi Iseijin's existence, the SRP forum and function was locked.
Can you clarify this for me please? Does this mean that I can RP a Nomad infected Osiris until they re-open the SRP?
Or you get the special treatment just because you are better then the rest of the factions?
And last, but not the least. My tone might be a bit wrong, but I assure you I am not trying to insult you or your faction.
I am just stating the facts how your faction looks in my eyes. And it looks much like an overpowered PVP faction.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Akura - 05-20-2011
I'll make this quick as I'm playing New Vegas and I'd rather shoot fiends than waste time on you.
The Aoi Iseijin use about 75% Chimaeras, 15% Katanas, and 10% other fighters.
Those are literally the stats from the roster.
The ships using Infernos and Nomad Lasers aren't infiltrators, or trying to hide anything. They are the offensive wing of the Iseijin, who seek only to destroy the Order, and other enemies of the Nomads.
There are so few Katanas in the Iseijin because those Blood Dragon pilots were prisoners, or infected on non-Blood Dragon bases, such as Ainu, where there is no Wild scanning tech at all.
You're right, the OC in vanilla didn't worship the Nomads, neither do the OC in Disco. The OC have a deep seated respect for the Nomads, at least, a large amount of the people do, enough to keep them favourable. The OC and Nomads see no reason to shoot each other, so they don't.
The OC don't shoot the Nomads/Wild, so we don't shoot them. The GC have no interest in shooting the Iseijin either, so we don't pay much attention to them. The OC supply the Iseijin with Infernos because the Iseijin are a tactically vicious force who often fight the BHG, Order and Corsairs, big enemies of the Outcasts.
The Iseijin have worked with KNF Tech for three to four decades, so they can produce and maintain anything the KNF can, having worked so closely with them in this time.
Blood Dragon tech is rather different, and the Iseijin see the potential uses for it in combatting the Order. You say it's for combat advantage? You're right, it's exactly that, the Iseijin want to win their war, not drag it on for another few decades.
The infiltrater Wild have faction IDs and no Nomad tech, this is how they remain infiltrating, through the use of other faction's IFFs and IDs.
The Wild use Nomad Weaponary primarily because it makes us scary. Alien tech disconnects us from the norm and makes us a formidable foe to fight. If we were given Nomad weapons with balanced stats, we'd still use them because they are terrifying for our enemies.
Fear is the most powerful weapon of the Wild.
While they may be biological, this is because we've been given little other alternative. So we'll use Nomad Lasers.
The Iseijin were started on the basis that we use the ships of the factions of Kusari, and it was approved. More than once.
We also have an approved SRP to use any Outcast Technology we desire, but we respect Jameson and stick to the Infernos that we were given.
Sounds to me like you're bitter, Chopper. Perhaps you should stop bitching about how other people decide to arrange their internet pixels and go have some fun.