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+---- Thread: Fighters should be fun... (/showthread.php?tid=5119)
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 12-30-2007
' Wrote:Decreasing universal armor upgrade would help less then increasing the damage on fighter weps.
Almost all caps use capital ship armor anyway.
So, increasing damage on fighter weps would help against fighters, while they would not become weak against caps.
Increasing gun damage would make fighters even more deadly against GBs and up *points at his post*
on the other hand I'm all for increasing other weapons damage
Reasonable decrease in universal armor upgrade would not make fighters weak against caps... when fighting a capship you turn to the capship to aim... get hit by a salvo taking your shield...immediatelly start to dodge, so all of the next salvo would not hit you => you survive and repair with the bots you have (same number as before)
Quote:Increasing speed would actually help, as most of people have mastered the art of dodging to the max, and because of that, they can't go much further.
And even if they can, there is no bad-side in increasing wep speed, correct?
In the worst case, by your words, it will remain the same. And it's worth giving a shot.
... because of that they can start to learn aiming...*points at his signature*
I also feel I still need to improve my aim..... plenty of room for anyone there. Increasing speed will just move everyone up a bit... so more people would move closer to the "aiming limit"... and it will get difficult to go further.
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@Badger.... I was thinking of upping damage on tracking missiles... to say 6-8000k for a Cannonball and introducting the unguided ones with something like this in stats:
damage 4000 or less
speed 1400++
refire 2.00 or more
no energy used
placed on missile hardpoint
note that missiles need some time to ignite the engine after you fire them.. so I will not be extremely easy to hit with them
with the rail gun you were thinking more damage, less refire and a huge energy use....
nice idea too but I would say it should be placed on torp slot and the damage should be decreased a bit (to some 2-3000... since it would be very easy to hit with it...it needs to be balanced with Inferno/Mini.... as I said multiple times.. hitting with Inferno is a piece of cake... Mini is a different thing and there's only 200m/s difference.
missiles/guns like this would need balancing with the other weapons.. they should not become the uber thing that everyone would use against everything... they should complement them in certain situations.
I believe the problem Yngen spoke about should not be solved by introducing one series of weapons...but rather by balancing the current armor and damage.
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 12-30-2007
Because.. Inferno hits the shield.. M-razor needs to hit the hull, which is 2x harder;)
And 200 less speed too.
I'm all for increasing all weapons damage as well.
It would make faster battles, even against caps.
But still needs balancing.
If cannonball was to be improved to 8k, it would be an instant killer for vanilla ships.
Now it takes most of the hull (like, 4/5), but at least he lives, and gets another shot.
Maybe only eagle dies from 1 cannonball?
Anyway, i don't really care, i fly 3,4 vanilla ships, and i'm still all for increasing missile damage.
At least people will start actually using missiles, instead of torpedo.
About rail guns.. Like it as well..
Fighters should be fun... - galaktik - 12-30-2007
Does anyone still usess normal vanilla weps? most of fighters and bombers use code and nomad weps, it is kinda silly when u have huge choice of weps, and good one to that matches.....
I consider 1 on 1 pure testing of some skills, nothing more, couse one training session 1 vs 1 can take half hour if both player are good, and i is pure waste of time for me.
I like more combat with multiple targets it is more fun and your real skill comes to out, and u can learn most stuff while in combat i know i did:)
And where would balancing end if every player would like to change tiny bit of every acpect of game?
Fighters should be fun... - bluntpencil2001 - 12-30-2007
*Yawns*
This thread has been going nowhere for a long time. I think we may have finally got there.
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 12-30-2007
Maybe implementing "a bit of all" wouldn't change balance much but would make enough difference as a sum:
lower bots some, increase weapon damage a bit, increase projectile speed by 100.
@mjolnir: increasing projectile speeds wouldn't make crap shooters closer to sharp shooters. That would have EQUAL effect on both parties! Crap shooters would be able to hit better in normal situations, while sharp shooters would have better chance to hit fast movers, even when dodging hard. Result would be: more hits in general = shorter fights + increasing chance for good fighters to actually protect their capships from other fighters&bombers thus finally enabling them to fulfill fighter's basic role.
Mjolnir m8, projectile speed is not just about what one gets used to, but about projectile having more chance to get to the target b4 it changes its vector. Think more in terms of big cooperative battles, and less 1on1 duels. As it is now, even the best shooters can't do enough damage on the avarage VHF targeting others. Only head on passing can do the job, and that is applicable mostly in duels, and makes capships EXTREMLY wounerable. Imagine, if bombers and fighters would have to fight for their lives when engaged by capships escorts, instead of considering them a minor nusiance. If we could solve that, we'd not only solve long ass dogfights, but would at the same time enable capships to actually be usefull in real battles. Now IMHO, this makes all efforts in further mod developing and balancing, well worth it.
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 12-30-2007
a small change in more things might work a bit yes......
but I still think less armor is a better idea than less bots
Otherwise we can agree that we disagree :) Blunt is right
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' Wrote:...... As it is now, even the best shooters can't do enough damage on the avarage VHF targeting others. Only head on passing can do the job, and that is applicable mostly in duels, and makes capships EXTREMLY wounerable.
.......
Imagine, if bombers and fighters would have to fight for their lives when engaged by capships escorts, instead of considering them a minor nusiance
And still this is not true....
Razr wrote it here already... [rant] I can hit fighters targeting others without big problems, try to come to rheinland in a bomber and consider Krupinski a minor nuisance :)[/rant]
Also fighting is not all about VHFs.... other classes play an important role especially support situations....try a Crow or any LF in a more vs more battle and you will see...
they never get targeted... because they are hard to hit... and are not considered a big threat..... but they can stay on their target all the time keeping it's shields down with ease (with 2 adv/imp. debilitators) leaving it open to damage from all sources.... and slowly wearing it down with their guns too
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example... I had a long fight with QCO in my Kusari bomber
first it was: 1 Bomber and 1 LF against me.... the LF was keeping my shields down most of the time... but I still was able to do more damage to the bomber than I was getting (note that the Bretonian bomber is really not agile compared to Kusari and I had Mini + Supernova, hitting with the Mini every time the bomber tried to joust me... so he started to fly around instead and didn't get to shoot at me at all)
then 1 more LF joined:.... my hull was going much faster than on the other bomber and I could never kill the LFs as they knew their job.... so I started to thrust away....
2 more LFs joined:... when I tried to turn and shoot on the bomber my shield was down at once and hull going down too (while I was dodging the best I can)
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So if you need to support others in a big battle.... get a HF/LF
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 12-31-2007
Nice...Turn viper into HFthan cos i sure can't. And i didn't see much use of u or two vipers (my self included) in downing just one Templar. It's not about if it can be done, but can it be done time efficient enough. And please, please get past those "ego tripps" and bosting:"I can...i once...Good pilots can..." cos it's neither helping nor objective (/rant)
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 12-31-2007
saying it's impossible is not objective either........ point was... there still is some way to go
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don't see that fight as a good example at all... with one lagging all over the place.. .and a BS comming very much right after I came....
I put the example there to point out that even the best bomber has no chance when 2 LFs are around
Fighters should be fun... - SimonBlack - 12-31-2007
I'd like to quote a famous person here...
Quote:" If you can't aim... get a full 2.00 loadout.... you'll be so ****** off not hitting anything, that you simply learn in the end."
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 12-31-2007
I'd like to answer that quote with my own saying: Fact that a good sniper can kill a fly at 300m, doesn't make sniper rifle an adequate fly killing tool (specialy since not all fies are gonna sit still waiting to get killed). It's not good enough. This mod can get better than that, and deserves to get better.