+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Corsair - Zoner (/showthread.php?tid=73664)
Corsair - Zoner - Blodo - 02-04-2012
Just because it doesn't work for your current needs doesn't mean that the faction should change its entire lore just to fit in. Also read the rest of my post for a solution.
Corsair - Zoner - Trogdor - 02-04-2012
Some observations...
O-74 sucks. It oozes with suck, on so many levels.
Physically, its just awful. You go in there and the place screams 'This system was hand-tailored by Zoner god-hands'. What's in this system? A sun, one gas giant planet. Stations? A freeport. Why is there a freeport in a system protected by guard faction weapons platforms? The point of those is to keep people out and away from our secret facilities. Then there's a shipyard, built behind the very convenient, and very fake-feeling, only planet in the system. And finally, this abominable minefield that requires one to go beacon-to-beacon in order to navigate it safely, while not being able to see your hand in front of your face because you're in a pea-soup green gas cloud. This research base used to be where you'd have to go for a Zoner Guard ID, which no longer exists. Now, its only unique purpose is selling regular Zoner IDs to Guard-IFF'd Zoner ships.
In roleplay, its also awful.
Where are guard systems located, traditionally? In the heart of the territory of the faction that owns it. In O-Theta we have a freeport and... a little supply base. Our guard system is shoved right up next to the heart of Corsair space. Wouldn't it make much more sense for it to be adjacent to O-49? Since, you know, we have a colonized planet over there?
I think this may solve some of our current diplomacy problems. Some of the people involved in this argument claim that the Zoners have too many expensive fancy toys. They argue that the Zoners are largely independent of one another, and because of their separation, shouldn't be able to field the quantity of capital ships that are seen in actual gameplay.
Part of this is, I think, because the devs have put the system that produces them on the Corsairs' doorstep. But the other problem is the aforementioned perception that Zoners hailing from separate regions of Sirius are independent of one another. This is not the case. This mentality has been brought on by a snowball that started when we as a faction let the Zoner Council fall apart. Without it, now we have the splintered, regional Zoner factions making up their own rules and diplomacy rubbish that's caused the current conflicts. When we had a Council, we had a governing body that took into account what was good for the entire faction, and what's more, it carried the concept that Zoners across Sirius were united and working together, giving legitimacy to our ability to not only field capital ships, but fleets of capital ships.
The Council is what used to manage our disputes with potential threats that could be reasoned with; the 'sairs, outcasts, bhg, and so on. This kept the focus of our capital fleets on exploring the yet-unsettled regions of space, and brought us into conflict with the alien races of Sirius, which according to the lore, was the primary purpose of their existence: Exploration, settling new colonies, and defending the new ground we've taken.
This whole situation sucks. We should not even be considering war with a major human faction, and they should not be considering war with us. We should not have to worry about having our stations bombarded by corsairs. Infocards and rumors hinting at scattered villainy aside, the corsair elders always held the traditional belief that due to their trade relationship with us, combined with the desire to not make yet another enemy, and knowing that they also get to use our freeports on their long-range endeavors, it was in their best interests to get along with us.
Bottom line: We need the council back, we need O-74 to be moved and probably overhauled so it doesn't feel so artificial, and we need to remember to stick to our lore when possible.
Corsair - Zoner - Vito - 02-04-2012
' Wrote:Just because it doesn't work for your current needs doesn't mean that the faction should change its entire lore just to fit in. Also read the rest of my post for a solution.
I didn't say it doesn't work for me. It doesn't work. Period.
The Zoners changed their entire lore when they went from a handful of people in the middle of nowhere to Warmongers flying Destroyers and Battleships against the biggest criminal group in Sirius.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
My solution? Give OSI and TAZ their own ID, remove the Zoner ID and the Zoner cap ships, make the Zoner VHF civilian and assign all the Freeports and Zoner bases to the neutral faction. That is the only way to keep the Freeport neutrality because the Zoner neutrality ended with things like the Omicroners allying with the Order and GMG or indie zoners Raiding Gamma along side Hessians or mercenaries.
Corsair - Zoner - Govedo13 - 02-04-2012
I said the same as Blodo 10 pages back. Sadly it is hard to make and there are more important non-vanilla factions that need to receive stuff then the zoners.
Corsair - Zoner - farmerman - 02-04-2012
' Wrote:That's not what the Zoners are though. They are not a unified group, they are a label for freelancers living in the border and edge worlds. The way the Zoners are run right now (no central authority, each Freeport governs itself) is exactly how the Zoners are supposed to be in canon.
Just because all Zoners fly under the same IFF doesn't mean that they have the same goals, the same ideas and the same diplomacy. Rather, the Zoner NPC faction should be split according to regions which can all adopt different diplomacy depending on the current political climate. This way Freeports can dictate individual diplomacy and we can get stop this silliness where a faction tries to blame *all* Zoners for the actions of a single Freeport.
It really needs to happen since it seems that people just can't grasp the idea that the Zoner NPC faction is more like the Freelancer NPC faction - not a real faction, more of a label.
While it may be that Zoners were intended to be this way, it's clearly not how they are in Disco. No small groups of people could build the sorts of ships that Zoners apparently have hordes of.
Maybe the solution should be to split the Zoner IFF into, say, 3 IFFs? Tau Zoners, Omega Zoners, and Omicron Zoners? With specific regional connections, they could actually act on regional issues.
Corsair - Zoner - Sir_Now - 02-04-2012
Greetings again,
I have to reply to some of the things said here today.
I cannot quote the statements made here, it would take up too much space.
I totally disagree with some of the last posts made here.
I think Zoners are fine this way, really perfect, there is nothing wrong with it at all.
First the Guard system, it is yust ok, and to have a Freeport there is perfectly Zoner.
We even welcome everyone in our guardsystem *getting warm feelings*.
You yust dont understand, that's all. It's all made for a purpose.
I agree on Zoners not supposed to be warmongers, but i havent seen anything like that yet....
And that they have a few battleships, well, thats yust to have some and fly around with.
We are not actually attacking anyone who doesn't deserve it, and then i mean really deserve it.
So, my crew for instenace dont even know how to operate our weaponery.
The ship is yust there to scare off possible hostile actions.
And no, there has never been, and i think never will be any allying against anyone.
If some force attacks us, everybody in Sirius helps, thats all.
Because everybody loves and respects the Freeports.
Neutrallity of Zoners is perfectly ok, still valid, in my opinion.
To conclude; Zoners work and do a great yob, there is no problem and everything is yust fine the way it is.
I sometimes think you dont even have a clue about Zoners and there philosophy....
*starts singing* If you're going to Omicron Theta, be shure to wear a flower in your hair *really big smile*
Corsair - Zoner - globalplayer-svk - 02-04-2012
sir now....
ok, so zoners are fine as they are now ?
ok, one example
you are living on a big island, where is no police or army... you are living in big house with your friends and your family... your neighboor is someone that dont care about you or someone around... everything is fine...
but then, gank of drunk people will arrive to his house and they will everyday attack your family and firends and you in your house...
you will fight them but they everytime escape to your neighboor and will laugh to your face...
you will ask your neighboor to kick them, but he answer you with big smile: why? you are welcomed here every day too....
and this situation will continue even when you ask him to kick them and not allow them to be there 1,2,3,10 time...
what you will make next time?
i am sure you will burn his house and smash him because you will be very angry that he is everytime when oyu ask him answering: why? you are welcomed in my house too. why i should kick them? they dont make problem here and i dont care that they are making problems in your home ....
this is like are zoners now... but yes... zoners are fine as they are now... but corsairs are fine as they are too... smashing zoners in face ....
you understand where is the problem ?
Corsair - Zoner - Sir_Now - 02-04-2012
I understand the problem, but the Corsairs will have to give up.
After a while it will not be that important to them anymore.
And even the Corsairs with all their power cant take on all of Sirius.
I think they end up to be wise, and not commit suicide.
Since the powers around them grow much faster then theirs....
So i see it on the bright side, We will become good neighbours again.
Corsairs dont have any choice, they will have to accept us as friends.
Even if they dont really want to... *smiles again but then a bit viciously*
Corsair - Zoner - henriking - 02-04-2012
zoner join with BH to raid gamma this is that you call good friends???
Corsair - Zoner - Lusitano - 02-04-2012
I read some posts .. not all!
The Corsair real problem is this ... some players use Zoner bases to raid Gamma or to escape corsair players.
The Zoner real problem is this ... Zoners undertstand the Corsairs and don't like that their bases are used this way
How to solve this? We can't! We can't remove their dockings rights by "force" by FR5 because doing it, they wil can't land on any other Zone bases, and also .. if Zoners did that just because they are using Zoners bases to attack Gamma ... shouldn't Zoners do the same because Corsairs players are attacking Zoners?
This is a RP server and the REAL problem is this ... most people don't understand or, even worse, don't want to understand or don't care! Imagine i'm the administrator of a base and i'm outside my base and i see some fighting and one is trying to dock on my base, and i say "NO"! By RP by my orders that player can't land on that base because the gates will be close, but in game he docks anyway and probably even still laughs at me!
The Corsairs RP on this is to make the Zoners remove the docking rights, but didn't already the administrators of FP5 and FP9 made a statement about this?!! So else Zoners can do?! This isn't good enough for the Corsairs? Should be if all players played in an RP way, and that means the players that attack Gamma and also the Corsairs! And that is the problem! Many don't care of what the administrators said and continue to use Zoner bases, and some Corsairs players found a nice way to have fun and to prove thenselfs how great they all.
Also about the FR5 ... if i take one of my Zoner ships and start to shoot Corsair pilots, i beat that soon after that char would be red to Corsairs, so why a Corsair shouldn't be red to Zoners if he shoots Zoner players?
So how can we solve this? I think we can solve this if all are reasonable people! Administrators from the Zoner bases say NO to docking to raid and after raid Gamma, and by RP that should be enough, but if there are any non reasonable person .. well ... we can make this a RP rule violation and punish that person! But the same is for the Corsairs ... you attack Zoners .. you will be hostile to Zoners! And what we need to make this? Some words of the administrators of those bases, then some words of the SERVER ADMINISTRATORS remembering what can happen if they don't follow this, and if they don't follow ... after one screenshot with date and a report ... some fines or some vacations on Bastile.
Otherwise ... this is just a stupid excuse for some players that have a very .. ahhhh .. is beter don't say the word ... ego!!
Also another thing ... i had a post on the rules abouyt what is house space or not and ther is a rule that says what is house space, even when there is a "laws of Sirius" that add more systems to that house space, but what is real is the rule and not the laws! And the thing that say that Theta, 41 and more systems are Corsair space is what you guys wrote on the laws, nothing more, so why should the houses follow the rule and you follow what you wrote on the laws?