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+--- Thread: Ending the Capship Issue(and more) (/showthread.php?tid=9215)
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - timmychen - 06-10-2008
I have an idea. Let's stop <strike>going way off track here</strike> being counterproductive. TAKE IT TO THE PEE-EMS.
EDIT: Rephrased my post after much consideration.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Ors - 06-10-2008
' Wrote:No it's not. I see a lot of registers that have no RP whatsoever, furthermore the very few examples of on server issues given are not fixed by "I register my capship".
Also you seem to forget that the community is larger than a few faction leaders, it's a community of hundreds, hundreds that didn't join the faction but still RP on the server.
You need to think about the whole community and not just yourselves for a change.
Registered where? on the forums? we ask them to register their craft - write an RP background to it, that for itself is forcing them to RP.
As for the attack on faction leaders, what makes you think it's just a power struggle of faction leaders?
I can speak for at least 5 factions I'm in with more than 14 players in each, all are against the Capwhoring and all are for the cap ship registration, and to be honest, the faction leaders are the one taking the things faction members wanna do a notch down. So instead of attacking the faction leaders for being just a small bunch that have a problem with cap whoring, be glad they are between you and the factions, as if they weren't you would probably been KoS right away.
We, the "So evil and power mongering" Faction Leaders, each represent a smaller community withing the server, gathered together we represent the community itself.
Who do you represent? And what makes you think that most ppl on the server are not in a faction?
"You need to think about the whole community and not just yourselves for a change."
I think it should go the other way around, as you seem to be all for yourself on none for the community.
BTW, just a thought, what if you registered and wrote a background story, than another indie cap ship player would read it, get an idea and join you in your RP, and so on and so on, then all of you will be entangled with the RP of the faction as will the faction be part of your RP, thus creating a better RP experience for all of us? mm.. just a thought...
Edited: And here is another thought, what if someone that doesn't know how to RP a BS will read your story, he might get ideas, write a story of his own, create new RP for himself, start RPing on the server..
is it so far fetched?
And if by doing so we get even 1 or 2 indie capships ships to RP insted of being a PvP cap whores who shout "noob" and "lol" and "pwnt" in system chat and that is the most comunication you get from them if any, than it was all worth it..
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Snapp - 06-11-2008
*Skips several pages of...*
Ok im sick of this, ive allready resigned to myself that ill never own a battleship in-game on this server. Its simply not worth it as much as i would like to atleast try one day. This place is becomming just like every other server out there, big guns + factions/clans = big heads and control. Making it only fun for the people with the cool tags infront of thier names.
Kinda ruins it for me since the capships are one of the biggest features in this mod. So do the "ganglike" comments comming from people i hoped would be of good character.. Sorry, sounds like the same crap IMMORTALS were spouting back on FLU, and the biggest reason i left that server...
Quote:Ah, but you see, Akuma, you have every right to do that, on the server. Thats the point of an open server. We have every right to pound on you for it, because there are more of us, and so long as we follow server rules, we win. We haven't broken any rules, and the admins are siding with us, so you can continue to give a rats ass what the forum community thinks, but understand, we're bigger, and we're more organized. We run factions, we join factions, we stay around, we talk in skype, and we know who you are, and we seem to dislike what you want to stand for. Thats the climate, as I see it. The forum goers and faction leaders have lots of friends, and lots of influence...that, as Xoria explained somewhere else, means we can walk all over the less organized or smaller groups of people who disagree with us on the server.
This in shorter words says, "we is a faction and we can pwn you so you dont matter"... Sorry, "we pwn you" is not an "open" server. So if all the indys band together and take over your system 24/7 for a week, in rp, then we could boot YOU out of alpha? cuz thats basically what your saying, "you keep what you can kill" right?
I would say putting capships on guard bases would work, but then the factions will just lay claim to the bases that sell em. At this point, my opinion is that battleships should be removed from all bases and be community granted, or open to ANYONE with a decent rp and story, period.
Meaning it wont matter wether your in a faction or an indy, owning a battleship requires a story approved by the rest of the community and the admins, including the indys.
Its the only way this will ever be solved with both sides being happy.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Reverend Del - 06-11-2008
' Wrote:I would say putting capships on guard bases would work, but then the factions will just lay claim to the bases that sell em. At this point, my opinion is that battleships should be removed from all bases and be community granted, or open to ANYONE with a decent rp and story, period.
Meaning it wont matter wether your in a faction or an indy, owning a battleship requires a story approved by the rest of the community and the admins, including the indys.
Its the only way this will ever be solved with both sides being happy.
I'm going to respond to this bit, becasue here you're in sync with what most folks are trying to say here and failing a little. Decent RP and story will get you most of the ships you want, it'll buy you an OC Battleship, you'll get a Kusari battleship and even a Bretonian one. That's not and never has been an issue. The issue is with the indies who don't ahve an RP for their battleships or any cap ships. I'll be honest I need to write up the RP for all my capships for the Rogues. Niezck is working on both the Graviton on Neutron stories and I need to get my arse in gear for the Gunboat Diplomat and whatever my BS will be called when I buy it. But the RP for the BS will come before the BS is bought in line with Eppy's regualtions concerning Outcast battleships. Both the LR's capital vessels are registered with the 101st and their role defined. All our gunboats will be defined. We will follow all rules laid down in order to do this. We will not be docking our gunboats or anything alrger at Buffalo we will be setting an example. If the RP is there there isn't a problem and no-one is suggesting there is. Nobody is saying you cannot fly these ships, they are simply asking you why you are flying these ships. Which as the factions who are in charge of these things they ahve every right to do.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Ors - 06-11-2008
At Snapp: Fromt he begining of your post i almost got confused it is going to be a flame post but you rase the exact points we are trying to make by this move.
We want the ppl flying a cap ship to show good RP, or any RP.
This is what it's all about.
Driving the PvP whores away and nurturing and helping the RPers to move forward and have both good fun and good RP.
As i said, if this was a shot at getting all the Indie Caps gone, Factions would of just outlawed every indie capship in their space and just kill anyone of them on sight.
That is not what this move is about. We are trying to sort out the RPers from the PvP whores.
We are trying to get more of the players that fly a cap to RP, so they will be the majority and not the PvP whores.
So i realy don't see what this ranting and bickering is all about?
If we share the same goals, why not help each other?
Edit: Del, i couldn't say it better myself, and you can see i tried...:)
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Eppy - 06-11-2008
So, you're telling me that writing a page of story with logical details and agreeing to stay within a Zone of Influence that should be perfectly reasonable to any idiot with half a brain (WHY in God's name would you bring an Outcast Dreadnought into fully populated Liberty Systems? Why? Anybody remember something called the 'Liberty Navy' and their 'Liberty Dreadnoughts', of which they have dozens?) and a couple of other common-sense rules is such a huge violation of your perceived civil liberties in a survival-of-the-fittest society like Discovery? I'm still trying to figure the logic on that one, considering that a normal government requires its citizens to divulge nearly every important detail about themselves from birth to death.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Jihadjoe - 06-11-2008
Hello everyone. I said I was going to stay out of this but now it seems like this is getting silly.
No one is trying to stop all indies flying battleships.
Capships were very very good once upon a time, then they got nerfed... heavily. Do you all want to know why? It was becuase they were used by people to simply fly about all over the place pwning anyone that moved.
Now we have rather ineffective capships that arn't realy worth the credits that people spend on them.
Restrictions have been put in place (especialy by eppy, he loves his battleships) in order to reduce the capship abuse so that we can return to having caps that are good at their job, rather than being laughable chunks of inertia.
Now...
The next reason. A lot of people spend their time in life wanting the biggest and the best, most people can't afford that in real life, however anyone who spends 3 or 4 days power-trading in this game can do it just fine. That means that a lot of people buy these ships, which is inherently unrealistic. How many battleships do you see on the average day in real life if you live near the coast? I bet its less than one...
The way I see this server we have player factions who represent the decision makes for the faction as a whole. For instance, we have the 101st the RoS and the BLS for the outcasts, they represent respectively the homeland defence, primary raiding wing, and financial backbone of the outcasts. As such they form a kind of government.
Next reason. Faction are groups of players, and thus the will of the group outweighs the will of the individual. This is a very simple concept in morality. Would you choose to live in a country that doesn't have some kind of majority rule?
Ok... next. To those of you who say it doesn't work.... Since the OC have brought this measure to fruition I personally have had people who before didn't realise it was a roleplay server asking me how to roleplay. Some of those people have started to do so. Some people have posted stories about their ship, some people have writen rather good stories about their ship.
Now none of this would have happened if the measure hadn't been put in place.
To those who say it will just move the people who have oorp cap ship elsewhere well yes it might, but if everyone did it then they would be forced either into roleplayling or dropping the ship.
Ok... I hope I have adaquately explained the position of those who wish to restrict the use of capitol ships. Factions members also only earn a capship after time (except in Akumabito's faction of course) and when they have shown sufficient responsibilty to use it. Why shouldn't everyone go through the same process?
I personally have suffered at the hands of people abusing their cap ships multiple times. I fly as a xeno. As a cardi smuggler I got blown up by an outcast battleship right outside malta with a full load of cardi while chatting to the locals in a friendly way. if that person had been in a fighter/bomber or even a GB or cruiser I would have been able to dock before I got killed.
That individual got a sanction, but wouldn;t we all rather live without players with little or no idea about roleplay sitting in massively powerful extremely visable ships. especialy when it means that those same ships which should have awesome power get nerfed to the point of absurdity due to irresponsible use by those OORP players.
Give the people who're trying to make a positive difference to the server a damn break...
That means you Akumabito. I have argued with you about this before and you never listen to anything that anyone has to say. I say that is arrogant in the extreme, and I find it somewhat distasteful.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - chovynz - 06-11-2008
Im just waiting for it...
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - n00bl3t - 06-11-2008
' Wrote:After I had some sleep I thought of something. Correct me if Im way off track Tek, n00bl3t and other "for-indies".
Is the PVP server down? Because it seems to me be two issues contributing to the issue here. 1) an influx of people wanting the biggest ships with the biggest armor, with the biggest guns - without proper RP. To me that is just "capship-whoreship". That Kind of thing I feel belongs on the pvp server.
and 2) the unfair restrictions put on indies because of this influx of new players.
Would that be about right?
I'm not from the PVP server. Have never played there in my life. I have nothing past 2.5 times armour. I don't own a BS at the moment either. Any further clarification needed?
' Wrote:So what we are seeing here, and why the issue has come up now (now being these last weeks -> months) is a result of the pvp players having no where to go.
If they want to join the RP server they need to step up to the game. That is one of the issues. That is why these restrictions are coming into place, because the pvpers have come in assuming that they can do what they did on the pvp server here on the rp server. The two are completly different beasts.
You CANNOT have pvp thinking on the RP server, otherwise the factions and established Indies here on this RP server will react.
That is what I believe has happened here.
I am all for Indy players, if they can RP. Not RP according to what I want, but basic RP of "Hi" "hi". Many of them dont even say anything when hailed. Don't forget...this is an RP server first and foremost. Those are the server rules. RP.
"For-indy" supporters listen to me. Please try to help us factions, help the Indy players who are not doing ANY RP ingame or in the forums. That is the issue I think. That is the way forward...the established Indies. Please help us factions to train the PVP thinkers into RP thinking. If that's possible.
I will help the indy-players by not supporting a faction's lust for power. I will help new players who need help RP-ing. Anything else?
' Wrote:To Eternal: First off, if it's so useless to you, don't bother, as you don't seem to bother listening as well.
As for the points you addressed, that is the main point, a fighter flying around doing his patrol/ pirating/ whatever, wouldn't come and engage a BS, but try flying a corsair fighter through delta without getting jumped by 3-5 BH BSs trying to shoot you down, without a word.. without anything, just guns rawring, and "run noob" "lol" "I will pwnt you" being shouted in system chat, does it sound like a fun scene? if so, talk with me, i will arrange a capship abmush on your fighter evreytime it undocks.
As for Cap Ship hating, I have a Hessian Cruiser of my own, it is the flag ship of my faction with a RP story behind and reasoning.
The only battle it was in was in sttutgart, when 3 BH BSs and 3 BH GBs attacked 2 VHFs of my faction when they were on patrol.
Side to that, it only comes out if there is a cap ship around Hessian Terph.
What i hate is not people flying capital ships, it's people not RPing in it, or at all, and whoring them, taking a group of BSs around sirius shotting at anything they stumble upon.
If you RP your ship, and you believe in your RP, why not just register and get it over with? why all the war mongering against a simple task? just because you find it offencive to indies all around? the threat wasn't for you, it was for those indies that do not RP, those that need to be threaten to realise they need to shape up.
Is signing in an RP background, or a short story, or any RP that hard and takes so much out of you that you will rather write endless flames and accusation against all the official factions and their leaders?
If you, as indie capship pilots, would of invested half as much time or effort in writing down a short RP background to your ship, we wouldn't have a problem would we? the RPers would get approval and lifted up by the comunity, and the capwhores would vanish as the comunity will shake them off it's back.
I don't shout OORP things. I have RP of my own, written on the forum. I will not register with the 101st. I've invested my time in writing that RP. Why do I have to register?\
Edit:
' Wrote:You don't care about the RPing, if you did you wouldn't put your own ego above it.
This cap ship registry doesn't help RP, you know it and I know it.
The day you do start caring about anyone on this server beside yourself is the day you deserve to be thought of as something other than a petty, pissed off teenage boy.
I will not support personal attacks, regardless of the validity of your statements. Bad.:nono:
' Wrote:If you own a Capital Class ship made by a NPC faction's shipyard, the OFFICIAL player faction that plays that NPC faction, has the right to monitor who is buying what in their shipyards.
You can argue all you want but that is a fact.
What is so evil in asking you to register your craft? What did they ask you? You are making a mountain out of a little stone..
There is much RP in asking Capital Ship class captions to register their craft upon buying it, for so many reasons that were mentioned already.
Stop thinking this is just a petty fight over who pwnt who, and stop twisting words to show as if it is that way. Eppy gave you an example as you guys so asked for one. That was all of it.
If we wanted all indie cap ships gone, we would of just KoSed you all and just take up bombers and shoot any capship on sight.
no, we are just asking you to register.
So stop with making a big fuss out of it and just register.
Their shipyards are Corsica. In Omicron-85. Only. If this is the case, Battleships and Destroyers do not come under their jurisdiction. That is what people want, I remember a thread when Korrd made his statement in the server and everyone was fueling up their bombers.
' Wrote:The point of having an OFFICIAL, and i will repeat it, OFFICIAL faction, is the faction's dominion over the said territories of it's ZoI are backed up by the Admins and The Comunity.
Yes, Disco is above all a Comunity, an RPing Comunity, and if you want to take part of that Comunity, you will fall in line with the rules it dictates for it's own protection.
If you find them not suiting for you, please, by all means, find a different server that falls in with your views, and i turely think that if one doesn't find it's place in a comunity, he needs to maybe go look for a different one that is more for his views.
Forcing him to register is forcing him to RP.
And RP is what we are all about here, that and the Comunity.
Now, maybe the best way to fix this situation is move all the BS production to faction gaurd systems in the next version, that way we might solve the problem for good, but instead we are trying to figure out a better way to get thing right again.
I can assure you that after you get all your Big Ships pwnted everytime you undock, you will fly them less and less each time, but we all don't want to go there, we just want to make sure all of the indie cap ship RPs.
And as for "I can fly what i want and i don't care what you say" attitude, well, that brings me to the first point i made.
This is a Comunity, and if you don't fall in line with it and it's rules, you will soon find yourself out of it.
I RP without registration. Therefore no registration is not going to force me to do anything. Big ships can be killed by two bombers, so their pwning can be halted quite easily, as many have said.
A community. Where in the rules does it say factions have the right to restrict capital ships?
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Eppy - 06-11-2008
So we can keep track of who's an idiot and who's not. By registering you show you have at least half the common sense you need to uphold the responsibility of a Destroyer command; and if we see somebody doing something grossly OORP or innapropriate, we have an easier avenue to remove them from their command. If I were power-lusting I'd have did what the RM did, namely, ban all sales of Rheinland capital ships, and then gone on a massive bomber-whoring spree and killed every non-faction Outcast warship we see.