+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: News and Announcements (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests (/showthread.php?tid=175455)
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Karlotta - 12-19-2019
(12-15-2019, 08:07 PM)Durandal Wrote:(12-15-2019, 12:01 AM)Karlotta Wrote: 3. I strongly encourage you to add a layer of community quality control to requests to find out about possible plot holes, contradictions, and possibly woes the community will have with something BEFORE you implement them (you will inevitably hear about it afterwards anyway). This could be done by making requests visible, and giving the community the opportunity to give feedback (which staff or the person requesting have no obligation to take into account), leaving the requesting person the opportunity to correct mistakes or include good ideas that they didn't have.
Heated debates for weeks which will drive development to an even slower pace. We're not a democracy and cannot be. The reason you don't see any other games doing this is exactly for this reason. As to the obvious retort "but Discovery is small!", no way. Not small enough to run the way these proposals suggest.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying, so I explained it more above. It wont be a part of the development process but a step to be taken before submitting the request. It wont be democratic, and there doesnt have to be a discussion by devs or supplicant.
It's just a possibility for feedback to be submitted by the community before, and not after, something is submitted and possibly put in the mod, which devs and supplicants are perfectly free to ignore if they want to.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Binski - 12-19-2019
(12-19-2019, 10:24 AM)Karlotta Wrote:(12-19-2019, 06:14 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote:(12-17-2019, 07:15 AM)Thexare Wrote: Discovery has historically been very big on bureaucracy and that's not attractive to new players, or to an aging playerbase that has other things to do in their lives.
The only thing that tipped the scales for me joining this game was the idea that the story could be changed by the players. I had heard that this world changed with the people. I had some Idea in my head that if, say, the Nomads attacked Liberty, then there would be actual damage to things in the next patch. I honestly thought this game was going to be the kind of game I was searching for my entire life.
Turns out that that was a lie.
You're being sarcastic right?
Where did you get the idea that if some nomad players decided to shoot stuff in liberty, that would be reflected in the next patch update?
How would you prevent that entire houses and all of other players accomplishment/stories/factions get wiped out by a few dickheads?
How would you decide what gets built in to the mod and what wouldn't?
How would you keep this enjoyable enough for developers that they'd be willing to keep running after players ideas of what should happen?
How would you find the manpower to do it?
How would you prevent such a system from devolving into some crock story situation that every party involved absolutely hates? (cough cough IMG)
If you really want what you said you did, you need to start answering all these questions.
So far I've seen no serious attempts to answer any of these questions from the people who want something like that.
I'll take this one!
I came to the place with the same impression, it seems like the most logical thing to do with a place like this really, within the confines of what is possible. The thing is, what genuinely is possible seems to have always been kept in a shadow.
The answer is to systemize! Everything can be controlled and balanced by a system. Some thing's can be set off limits, while other thing's opened up to the avenue of player exerted change. In many ways, the prospect of coming to a game, and forming a group with friends to do something epic is exactly what may entice people to come here.
What gets built into the mod would depend on what's possible in game. If station's were mortal, and finally sieged to a point where they are essentially a dead wreck, looks like RCR's can be used to claim and reactivate a station for another faction. Factions can also RCR for new bases, etc.
Keep it enjoyable for the devs? Well they'd get to observe the happenings, do the moving of the assets, even they would be following player driven changes like the rest of the player base if they were following a system.
Finding manpower! That's a wicked question! When was the last time we saw notices looking for people who can work on this stuff, or people to be GM's! Do we players know exactly how many staff there is now? So to do a system like that and allow for more player driven changes/investments, how many more people do we need? Half a dozen? A dozen? more? Finding people won't be a problem once its decided to start looking.
Prevent crock stories like with the IMG? Easy! The very same system I suggested. If IMG could have actually taken the actions they RP'd, under the system I proposed, they'd have been able to challenge over Aland, even if if was deferred to the end of the war, and siege the base, or siege Bretonian NPC battleship bases nearby, maybe cruisers, etc. So, they'd have had their chance to actually form alliances, and actually try to either defend or retake the station, and actually try to do their best to recruit people, use their resources as best they could figure out, strategize. A bunch of factions would have been invovled in what would have been an epic battle to see how it turned out. IMG could have also used the POB there to contribute to their side, so really allowing it to happen in a more real way would have made things progress much more realistically, even if they'd still lost. And if not, well Bretonia would have had to find another way at the time to deal.
The problem ther was, IT DIDN'T MATTER because it was determined a year in advance that the push was going to make it to New London, and that Leeds was to be lost. If it had been allowed to unfold freely, and matter, Bretonia would have had to do something else or take the hit. Of course, under the same system, Bretonia would have been able to take its chances on attacking into Leeds and pushing the lines back way before that. TLDR, a system would make sure it was fair, and more realistic! And create in game activity out of major changes. People came out in droves when it looked like there might be a real battle over Aland. I don't understand why we don't have a situation like that on the go all the time. Under a system, they'll come and go on their own.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - The_Godslayer - 12-20-2019
(12-19-2019, 10:24 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Where did you get the idea that if some nomad players decided to shoot stuff in liberty, that would be reflected in the next patch update?
How would you prevent that entire houses and all of other players accomplishment/stories/factions get wiped out by a few dickheads?
How would you decide what gets built in to the mod and what wouldn't?
Full scale raids would cause damage. I'm not saying 4 people yeeting around in snubs are gonna affect much. Ish'tars, GBs, and snub wings will absolutely break things.
Accomplishments are lost all the time. That's what makes things matter. That's what makes people care enough to log on. Stories are exactly that. The story. If you hold on to the past, Fine, if you don't, big deal. And don't get me started on factions. Lets just say LWB first. Then remind everyone that Vanilla factions that are hella important don't even have full shiplines. Xenos, LH, and Bundschuh, to name a few. And the Molly's are just Ctrl+C Ctrl+V'd Rouges.
As for what gets built in, anything that is impactful should be reflected in the universe. Massive battles, Player owned Base destructions, those kinds of things should leave behind wreckage that the junkers or some other "clean up crew" could take advantage of.
(12-19-2019, 10:24 AM)Karlotta Wrote: How would you keep this enjoyable enough for developers that they'd be willing to keep running after players ideas of what should happen?
How would you find the manpower to do it?
How would you prevent such a system from devolving into some crock story situation that every party involved absolutely hates? (cough cough IMG)
If you really want what you said you did, you need to start answering all these questions.
So far I've seen no serious attempts to answer any of these questions from the people who want something like that.
Well, first off, not "what should happen." It should be "what did happen." If, say, the Bretonia Intelligence brings back massive loads of science data and other things, and they provide convincing enough role-play, both in the game and in the forums, then they should be able to create new guns. The thing that everyone want's to hold against this ideal I have is "but everyone will just say that their cannon is different." The past is set in stone. What happened, happened. People shouldn't just be able to go to a random point in history and say "well, actually, this thing happened that led to us having 10 Battlecruisers that we stole from another faction", because not only is that stupid, it's also basically happened. I'm exaggerating numbers, of course, but other than that, please convince me that the story of Auxusia was any different. If this game was based in what is happening, then the developers wouldn't need to worry about random players ideas of what should happen. The only thing that would happen would be what the players DID.
As for manpower, how many devs have retired on the grounds of "they can't stand (insert person here)"? How many people could partially develop things, such as ships? What's to stop factions with decent reason from designing their own ships, and simply running it by the devs? There would be more unique ideas, and less copypaste. Factions would grow at more reasonable rates, presumably, and the devs workload would be much lighter.
Preventing the system from devolving is not much of an issue if all these other criteria have been met. The story of IMG has been quoted to me a lot, and as far as I could tell, it was simply because someone and/or a large group of someones got used to a pattern, and when something sought to break said pattern, they became illogically angry over it, and dragged everyone around them into it. But, on the note of crock stories that every party involved hates, the current powers-at-be have forced this Rhineland Kusari war on to us for a while now, even though neither side cares, and have declared ceasefire. The only answer I ever got from anyone was "maybe the devs think its generating activity" from someone who was making fun of it with me.
Does this meet your standards of 'A serious attempt to answer all of those questions'?
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Durandal - 12-22-2019
I have made a change to clarify the RCR procedure following a discussion with @Bannorn
Old:
Quote:Procedure:
- Application following the Application Template below. No template, no action.
- RCR fee taken from a character identified in the request.
- Approval by the story team
- Discussion of what the implementation could be between the requester and the Development Team
- Some form of implementation by Development. This step can often take quite a while, as implementation will enter our queue and be processed when we have time and opportunity.
- Cooldown period of two months between successive requests.
New:
Quote:Procedure:
- Consultation with the development team regarding feasibility of the request + 1st Discussion of what the implementation could be between the requester and the Development Team
- Application following the Application Template below. No template, no action.
- RCR fee taken from a character identified in the request.
- Approval by the story team
- 2nd Discussion of what the implementation could be between the requester and the Development Team following internal discussion
- Some form of implementation by Development. This step can often take quite a while, as implementation will enter our queue and be processed when we have time and opportunity.
- Cooldown period of two months between successive requests.
This should better serve to clarify the intent of the RCR as a system for the implementation of player roleplay & content rather than a big scary no machine.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - The_Godslayer - 12-22-2019
(12-22-2019, 11:18 AM)Durandal Wrote: This should better serve to clarify the intent of the RCR as a system for the implementation of player roleplay & content rather than a big scary no machine.
We went from planet-sized no machine to moon-sized no machine.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - SnakThree - 01-21-2020
Too bad that after this notice, developers have completely stopped communicating with people in their own Discord server for story chat. Refusing to share any details about upcoming story plans, so factions are left in the dark about what direction to go for. Or worse, conducting contradicting RP and then having to do 180 without no proper backstory of why this make sense.
[9:53 PM] Ageira~SnakThree: @Developer You have failed this community.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Skorak - 01-21-2020
Is that actually it? Is this thing the replacement for communicating entirely?
That has to be some giant misunderstanding
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - TheSauron - 01-21-2020
So that's why the server only has the devs that're AWOL.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Lythrilux - 01-21-2020
(01-21-2020, 09:01 PM)SnakThree Wrote: Too bad that after this notice, developers have completely stopped communicating with people in their own Discord server for story chat. Refusing to share any details about upcoming story plans, so factions are left in the dark about what direction to go for. Or worse, conducting contradicting RP and then having to do 180 without no proper backstory of why this make sense.
![[Image: BWzIPxb.png]](https://i.imgur.com/BWzIPxb.png)
We need another coup.
RE: Notice: Roleplay Canonization Requests - Typrop - 01-21-2020
(01-21-2020, 09:01 PM)SnakThree Wrote: Too bad that after this notice, developers have completely stopped communicating with people in their own Discord server for story chat. Refusing to share any details about upcoming story plans, so factions are left in the dark about what direction to go for. Or worse, conducting contradicting RP and then having to do 180 without no proper backstory of why this make sense.
[9:53 PM] Ageira~SnakThree: @Developer You have failed this community.
![[Image: dNYgD8G.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/dNYgD8G.gif)
I'm with Lyth on this one.