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+---- Thread: Fighters should be fun... (/showthread.php?tid=5119)
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 12-31-2007
Yngen mentioned Xwing. Now that was a game with perfect balance. Fighters were much like ones we have in Disco. Maneuverability and shields were LIFE. Pilot could transfer energy from guns to shields (which acted much like batteries here). But once fighter was out of shields, it could only take 3-6 hits to the hull (depending on armor), and there was NO means to repair hull. If u were out of shield energy, that ment u were hit too many times, u made too many bad moves and deserved to loose. I'd rather vote for removin nano bots all together, than leaving things as they are now.
And please stop spaming that "learn to aim" 1337 pwnz0r statment, if u don't have anything more constructive to add to the discussion. One can "learn to hit" a dodging fighter with current weapons, just as much as he can "learn to win lottery". U can lern based on probbability, how to "hit few digits", but never how to "hit em all" and win!
Projectiles are too slow, fighters are too fast and small. On top of that, u have shields +bots +batteries. Anyone spamming "learn to aim", obviosly never got past 1on1 duels in a fighter...
EDIT: not directed @mjolnir (just to make clear)
Fighters should be fun... - El Nino - 01-01-2008
:Dwell i have another new ODD storry, from my bomber... today i was flying around in sigma 13 in my corsair bomber... no special OORP loadout or anything and i was engaged in three, I repeat THREE dragon gunboats, the fight lasted for about 30 minutes, and they were unable to defeat me, until a bountyhunter Battlecruiser showed up, only then was i slowly begin to run out of nanos, and i had to escape... Where on earth (or in space) did the developers go wrong, when you need 400M of equipment (didn't check their armor upgrades) to take down a bomber, a single bomber.... I considered myself a poor pilot, and i still do,... once you get your timing just a bit right, you can easily survive nearly everything in a fighter or a bomber.
Perhaps increasing weapon speeds would do the trick, or make dedicated anti fighter weaponary for the capital ships, let's say secondary turrets, with higher refire rate and great speed 3000 perhaps,;)and call it flak...
I will not comment 1on1 fighter battles as they take epic time to complete...
Easiest solution would be to increase all weapon speeds by a 100 as suggested above, i just doubt a 100 would be enough...
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 01-01-2008
It would be, for a fighter.
It's not the same speed really, for a gb and a fighter.
GB is shooting at you from 700-1000m most of the time.
Fighter tries to be closer, on 300-400 behind his target.
And it can stay there.
GB can't chase fighters, that's the trouble.
And if you would increase weapons speed, the guy that is chased would actually have to DODGE.
Because, as it is right now, he just goes "Oh, just a bit strafe left, strafe right, oh and now turn around, yes, strafe again!".
So, it would have to dodge. He would be unable to chase his target while being chased.
And it should be like that.
Fighters should be fun... - Jinx - 01-01-2008
a GB cannot outmanouver a fighter for sure, but some GBs can allmost joust with come bombers. anyway - i am not concerned about fighters vs. caps atm. now that they cannot use the big hull busters anymore - they just cannot take down a cap one on one. at least not without a HUGE portion of luck. ( i know, i know .... there are some that take down gunboats half blinded, lefthanded in light fighters )
in x.83 they were able to damage caps severely with their novas - but now, its OK. in packs they can damage them much though. 1 bomber vs. 3 gunboats though - maybe it was lag, too. with a bit of lag ( like we have recently ) its very hard to hit something in turret mode. you just never know where the fighter really is - and missiles are useless then ) - but usually, i wouldn t give a bomber a great chance vs. such an opposition.
Fighters should be fun... - El Nino - 01-01-2008
I was astounded with my 1 vs 3 performance, i really didn't do anything special, they just couldn't hit me enough... that simple... there was no lag whatsoever during the fight, so the ballance is off, at least with the gunboats. The battle cruiser really made a diffrence then... and the gunboats were not rookies,...:Dwe'll i had a field day with my bomber up untill lunch on a junker base.:)
Perhaps UP the speed on fighter weapons for a 100 and 300 for antifighter capital weaponry...?
Fighters should be fun... - Horon - 01-01-2008
Removing Nanobots would be a good idea, but they do come in handy, especially when you are screwing around in Omega 41 or the like. Ship scripts have a nanobot variable and a shield battery variable. Perhaps we can move away from 1=1 in this department?
Fighters should be fun... - MB52 - 01-01-2008
Now I know this isn't a PVP server, but the most successful fights I've been in. (Successful, being Fun, and enjoyable for all), where those where the 2 fighters had an agreement not to use Bots/Batts in battle.
So, I could see removing the bots as being good, but.. the problem comes in radio active systems... Though I suppose that could just make those systems that much dangerous. Adding an added dimension to things, where you have to time your flights according to the radiation damage. If you stay out too long, you are toast. If you go in early, you miss out on fights etc...
It would definitely force players into staying closer to bases, where they can get repairs.
Fighters should be fun... - El Nino - 01-01-2008
Yes, that would be just interesting...:)really lowering the bots/batts:) that would solve many issues, on the other hand couse a whole lot more issues...
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 01-01-2008
The only way I can see any change working is to make an extented testing of all the different ideas:.
- less bots (and bats?)
- less armor for all / or non-vanilla ships
- more damage done by all/specific weapons
- faster gun speed
and then testing a combination of those
the extended testing would need to:
- include as many ships and ship types as possible
- both experienced pilots that know each other, less experienced ones and completely new pilots
- many different combinations and loadouts needs to be tested => testing any change would take at least a week
For these reasons I don't think this could be done while beta testing a new version. Some other time period would need to be set for this.
Another important part is to set what goals are we actually trying to achive with the changes:
- what change in balance between LFs/HFs/VHFs/bombers/caps do we want?
And the most important thing: What does actually Igiss think about all this?
---------------------------------
My opinion after all the 17 pages of this thread is leaning towards decrease in nanobots or armor.
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 01-01-2008
I agree about testing, and I said it earlier, i would be happy to help in testing.
Changing balance is not what we'r looking for, not against capital ships, not against anything.
The only thing we want are faster fights! Fighters only!
Balance should, by all means, remain the same, or close to what it is now.